How Do You Get A Guy Down Off A Rope If He Has Fallen?

Tinstaafl

I thought I'd be living in orbit, where you fall 24/7.

As for your suggestion Aggie, I'm not sure how well that can fly. There must be at least a couple of hundred different "falling from a tree" scenarios alone, each with slightly different details affecting or not affecting how you'd go about a rescue.

Probably the most important factor is having someone on-site with experience, a cool head and common sense.

And hope he's not the guy hanging up there.

IHI

I got the 4' rule from the owner of a large roofing/restoration company in town that gets "check up" visits by OSHA. This was yrs and yrs ago and he told the owner that technically anybody that is going higher than 4' off the ground needs to be harnessed up. Those of us who wear/have worn them know you in more of a hazardious situation the entire time your wearing a harness than not since it's a huge trip hazard.

There would have to be some seriously unique circumstances in place for a person on a life line to be unrecoverable in a short amount of time is what i'm getting at. I stir the pot because I can I just loved the links provided talking about how dangerious wearing harnesses were and the need to buy their standing straps because you need to tense your muscle to get blood flowing...so you dont die Again, think of the performers in circuses, shows, stuntmen that wear these harnesses as a way of life to get special effect action shots, hooked to pneumatic snatch lines that pull them backwards at a fast rate, etc.....anybody can die from anything, and if this was such a big big delima, I'm sure OSHA or whoever your trying to speak for would be having a feild day with harness revolutionizing so this did not happen/could not happen.

Is there anyway to look up "death by safety harness" and find real world data and numbers to support this claim?

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Tinstaafl

Just to stir your pot...

http://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib032404.html

tinner666

Since I work alone 99% of the time, I use a positioning harness instead.

Even then, on a 12/12, while tearing off, a cedar shake shot out from underfoot so suddenly, I slammed into the deck and broke my elbow.

I worked a bit slower for the rest of the day.

In one pic, I'm on a hip. 14/12 on one side, 12/12 on the other.

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Tom Struble

look at Frankie up dere wit da boyds

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IHI

That article explains it well, never once did i see anyting about "blood clotting" and what not being a cause of death...just "pooling of the blood" Jeez, what are "soliders" wearing that make them faint standing at attention...some kind of harness jock strap that cuts off circulation?

After reading this thread, linked articles, Orthostatic intolerance and Venous pooling are still about ahhhhhhhh, "this high" on anything Ill be worried about. There's names and symptoms for everything out there since everybody needs a name to associate to "make it alright" when things go wrong. But I'll jsut use my common sense, take a good look around at things certain people/professions do everyday that could be a much much better spokesperson for Suspension Trauma, than hanging off a harness for "30 minutes" until they die Just like EVERYTHING, each person will be tolerant to a different level. Heat exhaustion is a great example. One person can work all day in the sun with no side effects, other people will drop after 2 hours in it.....

big deal? nope, just like anything else- someobody gets themselves in a situation on a jobsite, you help get them out of it. Seems like a complicated concept, but it's really not To anybody working alone in sketchy situations, well, just like everything you try to do on your own that has higher than normal risk involved...you reap what you sew. I dont ride snowmobiles alone, too many things can happen. Same with working on a 12/14-12 pitch roof hanging off a rope by yourself. No offense, but ya get hurt, that's on you for doing it on your own in the first place. Whatcha gunna do if ya slide over the edge? your going to hang out and hope you have your cell phone or some neighbor keeping tabs on ya....that's a lil too much "hope" for my tastes.

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Tom Struble

Frank will just pull the pistol thats strapped to his leg and fire a few shots in the air to get help

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IHI

or he could just shot the rope and drop down

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tinner666

"Same with working on a 12/14-12 pitch roof hanging off a rope by yourself. No offense, but ya get hurt, that's on you for doing it on your own in the first place. Whatcha gunna do if ya slide over the edge? your going to hang out and hope you have your cell phone or some neighbor keeping tabs on ya....that's a lil too much "hope" for my tastes."

"Frank will just pull the pistol thats strapped to his leg and fire a few shots in the air to get help"

Neither. That's a Black I'D I'm wearing. And I have an ascender on a loop in the rear. I can lower myself to the ground, or raise myself back on the roof.

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tinner666

In the one pic, I have my foot in an ascender for balance.

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IHI

Frank....your hardcore my friend Full out spelunking gear to work on a roof

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curapa

I always heard your'e supposed to fire them and them cut the rope.

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kyle_dmr

Fired before you hit the ground.
Isn't that the general rule?

We are required and HAVE to tie off. Everyone on the roof. If someone falls, which hasn't happened. Get someone else down, in the boom and get it the F*** up there to get him down.
Have had 1 guy fall, landed on the porch roof then his rope kicked in. Only reason I knew about it was him screaming from his harness "tightening" around the boys...

JohnFRWhipple

Nice rope work!

I spoke with WCB and they want me to have a plan. My plan is to have David cut me down and help me with one of many ladders we have on sight. All the talk of blood clots does have me weirded out and I can tell you for sure I will not do ladder/ rope work solo or let my young guys up a ladder or on a roof with out both of us there and set up.

I for the most part turn away ladder and roof work - my roofer is so skilled I don't need to baby sit him or his crew. It's easy to see why people hire out uninsured crews with young kids when you think about the investment in gear and staff to do the job right.

I love the foot holds "Tinner ?" I got a gift card from some parents whose kids I help coach soccer for Mountain Equipment and I think I'll look into this rig.

Thanks Men.

JW

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jlhaslip

buy some Prusik rope and build 2 adjustable Prusiks that you can use to climb up/down the standing Rope.
Simply a Prusik on a prusik is used so you can adjust the length of the climbers.
If you need assistance, contact the North Shore search and Rescue folks to show you the ropes. (so to speak)
Or the folks at MEC can likely assist you if they are climbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusik

katoman

I really like the set up Tinners' usining, but pretty sure that would be illegal up here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you have to be wearing a full body harness.

I've got a climbers waist harness that also goes between your legs. Very safe, but not allowed. You would end up upside down. The safety guys have to take into account that you may be unconscious. Then what?

That's why the body harness, leaves you hanging in an upright position.

Bad Boy Biker

I would think that since the "new guy" made the tie off to the rear bumper of the truck in the front yard all you would need to do is drive the truck forward and it will pull the man who fell back up to the roof.

JKBARR127

[quote=katoman;892397]I really like the set up Tinners' usining, but pretty sure that would be illegal up here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you have to be wearing a full body harness.

I've got a climbers waist harness that also goes between your legs. Very safe, but not allowed. You would end up upside down.


I may be miss understanding you. You never hang upside down in a climin harness when theres tension on the rope if its worn properly. I have fallen on lead climbs w heel hooks above my head and always snap feet down once the rope catches.

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Chris@Sunrise

Has to be a full harness here. No belt harnesses allowed.

Anti-wingnut

This is a subject that I am quite well acquainted with. Started rock climbing in 1975, and spent a bit of the 80's living in Yosemite. I have also been a life-long constructor of things, and was designated "person of authority" of fall protection for a large steel erector.

1) In almost all situations, a full body harness is required. And the fall arresting point on the harness is required to be the rear D-ring

2) Positioning points can be in the front

3) The use of a single rope for positioning as shown by Tinner666 would generally be interpreted as improper if used by an employee. A climbing harness is not approved by ANSI for use in construction, and a separate fall arrest rope system would be required in addition to the rappel rope.

4) The use of climbing harnesses by construction workers in general, and specifically by tree works and roofers led in large part to the abandonment of the manufacture of climbing equipment by the Patagonia Companies/ Chouinard Equipment in the early 90's. Prior to this, Chouinard equipment was a world leading manufacturer of state of the art climbing equipment. They were bought by the employees, and reorganized as Black Diamond Inc, and still make some of the best stuff on earth

5) Flipping upside down is a real risk of falling in a climbing harness, regardless of statements by JKBARR. Rock climbers typically end upright due to body motions, but the simple fact is that a bodies center of gravity is above the waist, which puts it above the tie-in-point of a rock climbing harness.

6) The rear tie in point of an industrial harness is very effective up keeping a body upright, and is meant to allow someone to attempt to protect themselves when they fall, instead of falling helplessly back-first.

7) It is my opinion that being suspended from the rear D-ring of an industrial harness can in some situations of a poorly fitted harness cause constriction of the neck area. And in all situations, can make any type of self rescue from a suspended position almost impossible.

8) Plans for the evacuation of suspended workers is often neglected, and if access to the worker is not possible by scaffolds, ladders or lifts, rescue will often be impossible without the response of a fire department. This is because the knowledge of the use of safe and effective rope rescue methods is not common on construction sites. And the equipment to effect these rescues is probably even less common.

9) I normally chose to use my rock climbing equipment when I need to do suspended work, much like Tinner666. I am more often than not, not under OSHA rules when I do this, because I am working as a sole proprietor. In other situations, I am an employee, but chose to use my rock climbing harness because it is more effective and safer in my opinion. But I acknowledge it is illegal, and I hope to be under the OSHA radar. When working in a normal situation where the harness is solely for fall protection, such as in a lift, I use a ANSI approved industrial harness