How do you get a guy down off a rope if he has fallen? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

JohnFRWhipple · 02-09-2010, 10:27 AM

My young guy asked me "How do I get you down if you fall and your in your harness?"

Good question.

I have never fallen (while wearing my harness) and had this happen. What is the drill?

Is there any code issues or procedures that must be followed?

I'll send a email out to my WCB rep but am curious as to what has been seen done or what is practiced day by day in the field.

Thanks

IHI · 02-09-2010, 10:33 AM

Situations will vary, but I guess my first thought- LADDER

If the guys is a POS, cut the rope.

jlhaslip · 02-09-2010, 10:40 AM

Depends if you are on the structure or hanging over the edge, conscious, etc.
Good question, however.
The least someone should be able to do is call 911. They'll get you down.

Maybe have the young fellow take a lesson or two from the North Shore Rescue Association.

**genecarp** · 02-09-2010, 10:42 AM

Tell him that standard procedure is to just cut the rope and hope for a good landing

, maybe he wil be extra careful knowing how it works, GMOD

Cole82 · 02-09-2010, 10:44 AM

IHI is right depends on the situation. Cut the line LOL

I have only ever seen 1 guy fall with a harness. The rope stretched some much he ended up about 6' off the ground. Stood up a step ladder first 8' but was still to much tension on the rope to get him off. Then we leaned an extension ladder up next to the step ladder. He had to climb to with in about 6' of the gutter before he could unclip.

Cole

Aggie67 · 02-09-2010, 11:11 AM

If you don't have a trauma loop with your harness, get one. We give our guys the loops so if they fall, they can take their weight off of the harness straps.

By rights, that sort of post-fall-how-do-you-get-down action plan has to be doped out prior to the work. People forget that after 20 minutes of hanging from a harness, chance are you're going to die:

From an article we found and e-mailed out:

Sophisticated fall arrest equipment has clearly resulted in increased survival rates in worksite falling incidents, but surviving a fall is only half the battle.

Workers waiting for rescue can experience suspension trauma, known otherwise as orthostatic intolerance.

The mechanism of the syndrome is simple.

A person who is rendered immobile while suspended in a fall arrest harness can lose consciousness in as few as 10 minutes, as blood begins to pool in the lower extremities.

A person who faints will normally fall or be carried to a reclining position where blood flow can be restored.

Not so for the worker suspended in a fall arrest harness, who will probably remain motionless after fainting, risking death through oxygen deprivation to the brain.

“An effective rescue plan is critical here,” said Alex Tsen, product manager, fall protection—Americas, Honeywell Safety Products at North by Honeywell.

“If your rescue plan is to call 9-1-1, then you haven’t got a rescue plan at all.”

Tsen said that an effective rescue plan will minimize the time a worker is suspended, and provide appropriate treatment after the rescue has been accomplished.

While blood flow will already be minimized as a result of the suspended worker’s position, the position of fall arrest harness straps can also minimize circulation.

“Studies show that a person suspended after a fall can feel dizzy in as little as three minutes, experience loss of consciousness in as little as 10 minutes and die in as little as 20 minutes,” said Tsen.

Timely rescue is even more important for a worker who has suffered an injury during the fall, or who has pre-existing health conditions affecting the heart and blood pressure.

“During and after a rescue, it’s important that you not allow the victim to lie on the ground, as this can cause a heart attack and multiple organ failure when the deoxygenated blood comes flooding back to the heart,” he said.

“Keep the person in a kneeling position, then a sitting position for the first 30 minutes after the rescue.”

Tsen noted that paramedics who arrive on scene need to be informed that the worker may have suffered suspension trauma.

“What’s the first thing a paramedic usually does when they answer an emergency call?” asked Tsen.

“They lift the person to a horizontal stretcher, trolley or hospital cart, which is the wrong thing to do in the case of suspension trauma. They need to be informed about what might have happened before they arrived.”

A person, who is conscious while suspended in a harness, can also engage in potentially life-saving strategies.

“Relax, because panic can make your situation worse,” he said.

“Find something to kick against or lift your knees into a sitting position, if possible. This gets your legs above your hips and keeps the blood flowing. If you’re able, swing yourself upside down every few minutes.”
A specially designed trauma strap can also be used to buy a suspended worker some time while awaiting rescue.

It’s essentially a loop that allows the worker to stand on it while suspended.

“Even if you can’t move, then strain your leg muscles as hard as you can every five seconds, while breathing slowly and deeply,” said Tsen.
“Rescue is a priority, but the suspended person who is conscious can help to improve the potential outcome.”

JonM · 02-09-2010, 11:16 AM

Call 911 and take plenty of pictures....

Aggie67 · 02-09-2010, 11:20 AM

Here are two videos:

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...128839WrEqny4q#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJh1c_bod8Q

IHI · 02-09-2010, 11:27 AM

"Suspension Trauma"??? Seriously?? Sounds like a care tactics sales schpeel.

What about parachuters, same rigging essentially. I sit in my recliner for hours at a time in a "reclined" position and have'nt died yet from it. Rock climbers will rapelle in a harness, scurry back and forth across rock faces wearing a harness and no "stand up rigging"

Coast Guard resucers use harnesses to winch down/up retrieving victims, military personel rig up in harnesses for quick extractions and are penduling under a chopper to a safe zone/ship/etc. Other resuce workers use harnesses to go down in shafts and such to rescue folks, etc....

I dunno, seems a wee bit far fetched for me to believe, otherwise as many times as harnesses are used around the world for various rescue/work related tasks, seems there'd be ALOT of exposure to this "suspension trauma" thing a ma jig

IHI · 02-09-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggie67

Here are two videos:

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...128839WrEqny4q#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJh1c_bod8Q

Yep, sales schpeel....god help us all that fall asleep in a chair, the dang blood will pool in our legs and we'll DIE!!!!! Apparently there's a medical phenominom I never knew, we must constatly squeeze/tense out muscles to get blood flowing throughout our bodies....holy crap, no wonder i wake up sore all over eery night i goto sleep...otherwise I'd die, i guess my heart is just a wasted organ...this whole time, i thought it was a blood pump.....man, guess i learn something new everyday

Maybe i could sell my heart on the black market since muscle tensing is what circulates blood

Trim40 · 02-09-2010, 06:21 PM

I think I'll take my chances hitting the ground.

jlhaslip · 02-09-2010, 09:04 PM

Anyone who has had any rigging/rope rescue work that I know always carries an extra prussick and carabiner or 2 to get themselves out of a pickle.

ubenhad4 · 02-09-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHI

"Suspension Trauma"??? Seriously?? Sounds like a care tactics sales schpeel.

What about parachuters, same rigging essentially. I sit in my recliner for hours at a time in a "reclined" position and have'nt died yet from it. Rock climbers will rapelle in a harness, scurry back and forth across rock faces wearing a harness and no "stand up rigging"

Coast Guard resucers use harnesses to winch down/up retrieving victims, military personel rig up in harnesses for quick extractions and are penduling under a chopper to a safe zone/ship/etc. Other resuce workers use harnesses to go down in shafts and such to rescue folks, etc....

I dunno, seems a wee bit far fetched for me to believe, otherwise as many times as harnesses are used around the world for various rescue/work related tasks, seems there'd be ALOT of exposure to this "suspension trauma" thing a ma jig

Man I hope you dont have employees. Your negligence is enough to put you in jail. The harnesses that are for fall protection in our industry are attached to the lanyard at the back of the wearer. Rescue and climbing harnesses are attached in front, way different stresses on your legs. The stress from the harness puts pressure on your femoral artery causing clots after 15 to 20 min these clots are enough that when the pressure is released the clots move the the heart and kill you. Get ahold of osha they will give you a fall demo so will all manufactures of fall protection the stresses will astonish you there no BS. You MUST have a rescue plan laid out when using fall protection or you are negligent and if the guy dies by by and tell bubba hi. Safety should be number one priority on your jobsight. It only take a moment for your entire life to burn and if its your guy that gets hurt because of you thinking safety is a joke you have to live with that.

IHI · 02-10-2010, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubenhad4

Man I hope you dont have employees. Your negligence is enough to put you in jail. The harnesses that are for fall protection in our industry are attached to the lanyard at the back of the wearer. Rescue and climbing harnesses are attached in front, way different stresses on your legs. The stress from the harness puts pressure on your femoral artery causing clots after 15 to 20 min these clots are enough that when the pressure is released the clots move the the heart and kill you. Get ahold of osha they will give you a fall demo so will all manufactures of fall protection the stresses will astonish you there no BS. You MUST have a rescue plan laid out when using fall protection or you are negligent and if the guy dies by by and tell bubba hi. Safety should be number one priority on your jobsight. It only take a moment for your entire life to burn and if its your guy that gets hurt because of you thinking safety is a joke you have to live with that.

Well, I'll tell you what Mr. Politically Correct. I need not worry about this since any high work gets subbed. But let me ask you since this is a VERY serious issue and judging by your ridiculous answer that has no common sense attached......Go look in the mirror, look yourself in the eye before you answer me because everybody here will know your just a typical soap boxing POS if you answer the way that would allow you to be politically correct......
DO YOU PUT ON YOUR HARNESS AND RIGGING EVERYTIME YOU GET ON A LADDER THAT PUTS YOU 4' OFF THE GROUND?

if not, osha will have a feild day with YOU, heaven forbid one of your guys falls off a step ladder and gets hurt or killed, you must make jobsite safety priority one, negligence will give you a first class trip to see bubba, so just keep a pocket full of lemon heads to offset the saltiness you will encounter.

A Saftey plan is just that, some a-b-c instruction kit for idiots. Anybody else will assess the situtation and take appropriate steps to getting the guy down...this question was ridiculous in the first place since 1. common sense/situation tell you what to do to get a person down and 2. Scenario, every scenario will be different.

Regardless ubenhad, before you start trying to run your yap, take a look in the mirror before spouting off since I'm willing to bet a person could find a host of things "not osha approved" in your day to day operations.

Aggie67 · 02-10-2010, 09:27 AM

IHI,

If your high work gets subbed, and you don't have to worry about it, what are you doing on this thread, other than just stirring the pot?

The original question has merit to those of us who do work from heights and do have to worry about it all day long.

Also 1926 states the fall protection threshold is 6 feet for construction work. For iron workers it's 15 feet. On scaffolds it's 10 feet. The 4 foot threshold doesn't apply to construction work. That's the 1910 general industry standard, and covers things like changing light bulbs.

ubenhad4 · 02-10-2010, 09:52 AM

Harnesses are NEVER and THATS NEVER required on portable ladders not matter what the height. I have an idea why dont you figure out the rules before saying you know them so well. Oregon is one of the nations leaders in safety through osha there very proactive. They have been to my commercial site three times in as many weeks and they were on a residintial job in December. Trust me all OSHA rules are followed on my sites I can not afford a 10000 dollar fine for failure to comply with there rules no matter how stupid they are in some circumstances. If you do get an OSHA inspect and dont have a documented rescue plan for areas where fall protection are being used thell fine you. As the GC if one of your subs dosnt have one of his guys tied off and you know it your liable to. Even if your not there osha has and will fine gc for subcontractors not following rules. I know a lot about osha law and following it ive had a fall injury off an extention ladder by one of my guys, major ankle break and broke his foot. Osha came on site and did an unanounced FULL safety inspection not fines or warnings for me at all this included checking safety meeting paperwork, msds, tools, cords, ladder, fall protection gear and entire site. I probably know my sh*t. We are also a very very efficiant crew so safety and speed can go together.

**genecarp** · 02-10-2010, 10:25 AM

Lets keep it cool boys and keep the thread productive, GMOD

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tomstruble · 02-10-2010, 10:48 AM

i don't know if its as simple as just getting a ladder,what if he broke his back or is unconscious,i mean going up a ladder to help get a guy down you could be endangering 2 guys.Each case would present an obvious answer i suppose...thank god for those fireman/police/emt rescue guys

Aggie67 · 02-10-2010, 12:17 PM

For me it really is a matter of looking at each case. And for us and the sites we work at, it has to be doped out prior to hooking on. We have to use Daily Safe Work Plans.

It would be worthwhile to throw some scenarios out there, and see what each of us come up with. Let's see a scenario (roof, bar joist, tree, etc) and see what gets put out there.

tomstruble · 02-10-2010, 12:26 PM

they told me when i was a kid id have my own jet pack by now