Security Cameras - Low Voltage - Contractor Talk

Security Cameras

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-01-2011, 09:22 AM   #1
Tech Geek
 
WarriorWithWood's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Guru
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Feasterville, Pa.
Posts: 2,625
Rewards Points: 1,342

Security Cameras


Ok, I need a camera system for the shop I'm building. I'll need at least 7 camera's and I need it to have a pretty high resolution. I have a quote for a system with 4 camera's and an 8 channel dvr for 2900.00 so as long as the system comes in at under 1500 I'll still save money and be able to keep the guys busy.

I want to do the install in house but I don't want to just "pick" a system at random. Has anyone done a commercial system that they really liked?

What is a good brand name?

What kind of resolution and what other specs should I be looking for?

5 Cameras will be indoors and 2 outdoors, the outside cameras will need to see about 50' and the inside will be 60' at the most.
__________________
-Dennis
WarriorWithWood is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 01-01-2011, 09:56 AM   #2
Member
 
jamesclerie's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fort Lauderdale FL
Posts: 52
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Security Cameras


$1500 cost for a DVR and 7 cameras is gona be close a good quality 8 channel DVR is be about $700 with a small Hard drive no optical drive, cameras you want Inferred so you can see in the dark so around $100 bucks each. Siamese cable about 90 bucks for a 500 foot roll connectors $50 for a pack of BNC compression. So there you have $1500this is all entry level gear not top quality but OK if all you looking for is cameras you are not going to get casino quality.

Advertisement

jamesclerie is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jamesclerie For This Useful Post:
cork-guy (02-13-2011), nEighter (02-13-2011), WarriorWithWood (01-01-2011)
Old 01-01-2011, 10:22 AM   #3
The Security Guy...
 
Security101's Avatar
 
Trade: "Alarm Company" CCTV PERS GPS 24Hr LV AV
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Security Cameras


For that kinda basic budget system ( like jamesclerie said - not casino quality ) I would look for "LTS" equipment.

I have used their stuff and been satisfied for the price.

Jim
__________________
"Rest Assured - You're Secured"
Security101 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Security101 For This Useful Post:
nEighter (02-13-2011), WarriorWithWood (01-01-2011)
   
 
Old 01-01-2011, 01:03 PM   #4
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 24,116
Rewards Points: 13,396

Re: Security Cameras


Go to your local ADI and ask for some cheap Capture or Everfocus cameras and a Speco DVR. The DVR will eat up half your budget. A "good" system is going to be over your price point.

If you want a really good picture you need megapixle IP system and anNVR....expect to pay many many times what your budget is.
Inner10 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post:
WarriorWithWood (01-01-2011)
Old 01-01-2011, 01:22 PM   #5
The Security Guy...
 
Security101's Avatar
 
Trade: "Alarm Company" CCTV PERS GPS 24Hr LV AV
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Security Cameras


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
Go to your local ADI and ask for some cheap Capture or Everfocus cameras and a Speco DVR.
I was gonna say that too, but I don't see where he'll get all the pieces anywhere near his budget.

That, and I don't like Speco, as I've had multiple DVR failures. Sure their warrantied for 3 years - and they replace happily - but with shipping time thru ADI and the disruption to security at the protected premise (read: angry customer after 2nd and 3rd unit replacement) I just cant justify the future purchase or recommendation.

The LTS product is not mainstream stuff (well it is really - the mainstream manufacturers just OEM rebrand their product - add 80% - and sell it through our regular vendors) but there are 1 or 2 American vendors that do stand behind the product, offer support, and gladly deal with returns if needed.

Just food for thought...

Jim
Security101 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Security101 For This Useful Post:
WarriorWithWood (01-01-2011)
Old 01-01-2011, 01:43 PM   #6
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 24,116
Rewards Points: 13,396

Re: Security Cameras


I've had decent luck with the Specos, its the Digimerge that are real trash. I also had good luck with GE. All in all I don't really get many DVR failures except for hard drives.

At my COST I could almost get 7 cheap cameras and an 8 channel DVR for 1500. But we are talking stuff that I would rarely install its so cheap.

Maybe check out ebay and Costco.
Inner10 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post:
WarriorWithWood (01-01-2011)
Old 01-01-2011, 01:50 PM   #7
The Security Guy...
 
Security101's Avatar
 
Trade: "Alarm Company" CCTV PERS GPS 24Hr LV AV
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Security Cameras


Yep, I've had issues with the Digimerge ones too.

Jim
__________________
"Rest Assured - You're Secured"
Security101 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Security101 For This Useful Post:
WarriorWithWood (01-01-2011)
Old 01-01-2011, 06:40 PM   #8
Tech Geek
 
WarriorWithWood's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling Guru
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Feasterville, Pa.
Posts: 2,625
Rewards Points: 1,342

Re: Security Cameras


ok, what if I go 2 grand and cut it to 4 camera's, will that help with quality?
__________________
-Dennis
WarriorWithWood is offline  
Old 01-01-2011, 06:47 PM   #9
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 24,116
Rewards Points: 13,396

Re: Security Cameras


Quote:
ok, what if I go 2 grand and cut it to 4 camera's, will that help with quality?


You would be able to make a bit of an upgrade.

What is the scoop on the 2900 dollar system? Is it another security company installing the gear or it that just for a DVR and 4 cameras? If its an installed price I would just go that route because the wire/labour/connectors/powersupplies etc can really add up...Not to mention the time to tie it into your network.
Inner10 is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:38 AM   #10
Pro
 
cwatbay's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical Contractor
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Carlos, California
Posts: 1,258
Rewards Points: 2,084

Re: Security Cameras


My 2 cents:

For the price range, you can go with a GE DVR and some cameras around 150 to 200 each ( I am assuming you are going to go with the 4 cam system). You might want to see if your security distributor is cutting any deals on GE DVR package system and/or separate parts.

I have used Everfocus in the past and have had mixed results. Nuvico is bad news. Dedicated Micros is good, but out of your price range. Pelco is over priced. Digital Watchdog is not too bad.

I have used Speco in the past and they work fine for DVRs, and, I like the fact that I can swap out the hard drive when they crash, with Western Digital or Seagate ( I prefer Western Digital). But even a Speco may knock you out of your price range.

By the time you do your wiring, connectors, and, perhaps a tie in with a simple network ( you will need a switch), it's going to run around the $1500 to $2000+ range -- that's with you doing the labor.

I get specials flyers every month or so from Northern Video and ADI. Most of the super discount CCTV stuff is pure CRAP. High failure rate, limited return/warranty policy -- quality is marginal at best.

Frankly, we have pretty much done away with analog, although we still do service work on older systems and will sell Extreme Cams. Almost everything now is networked digital: Arecont, Mobotix, Axis, Acti, Exacqvision, Hautspot Networks, and a few inexpensive digtial cams for folks on a budget. Right now we are booked out solid for the next 6 months. For us, analog has become too cut throat and low budget.

Last edited by cwatbay; 01-02-2011 at 11:46 AM.
cwatbay is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:50 AM   #11
Pro
 
tccoggs's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 732
Rewards Points: 874

Re: Security Cameras


I put my 8 camera home system together for about $700. Its usually far cheaper to use a PC with a D1 card in it than to buy a DVR appliance, however your electric usage will be slightly higher. Got a used Dell Optiplex for a $100, put in a new WD AV-GP 1.5tb Drive in it and paid $120 for a 8 ch PCI-e capture card with a Techwell 6868 chip. Displays and records at full D1 res.

For cameras, I got 8 iRes varifocal 520TVL domes with IR. 9Ch Power supply on sale for $30.

Casino quality, no, put it far outperforms DVR's that cost $1500 and that doesn't include the cost of cameras and power supplies.
tccoggs is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:45 PM   #12
Synacom
 
Synacom's Avatar
 
Trade: Information Transport Systems Installer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 61
Rewards Points: 89

Re: Security Cameras


Go to ADI and ask for the Watchnet XDD cameras and DVR They are a good product and are reasonably priced. I have used the product line for several years with good results. Always pick a quality brand and get what you can afford right now and add to it as you get the funds. If you buy low quality to fit the current budget, upgrading to quality or replacing failed components will cost more in the long run.
Synacom is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 02:29 PM   #13
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 24,116
Rewards Points: 13,396

Re: Security Cameras


Quote:
Western Digital or Seagate ( I prefer Western Digital).
Seriously? My experiences have been exactly the opposite. What model do you use most often?
Inner10 is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 04:34 PM   #14
Pro
 
tccoggs's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 732
Rewards Points: 874

Re: Security Cameras


Every HDD manufacturer has had a "Bad Model", that includeds WD and Seagate. Seagates 1.5TB drives had awful firmware that used to corrupt and drop their sata connections constantly. Helped a friend of mine upgade several multidrive NAS units that used these.

Also keep in mind that Western Digital has many lines, the Blue line is the lowest end and designed for basic desktop use, the black line for performance desktop use, the RE line for RAID Arrays and enterprise business use, and the AV-GP line which is designed for use in DVR and AV applications.

Seagate is much the same, Barracuda nd Momentus on the low end, Constellation and Cheetah on the high end.

I have a 24 x 500GB RAID array at my house with WD RE3 drives in it running continuously now for 3 years with no failures.

I always liked WD's RMA process better too.
tccoggs is offline  
Old 01-03-2011, 11:37 PM   #15
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 24,116
Rewards Points: 13,396

Re: Security Cameras


Quote:
Every HDD manufacturer has had a "Bad Model", that includeds WD and Seagate. Seagates 1.5TB drives had awful firmware that used to corrupt and drop their sata connections constantly. Helped a friend of mine upgade several multidrive NAS units that used these.
Yeah they had a 1TB model that had wonky firmware too a while back and would cause error reporting on a NAS like crazy.

I guess its just been roll of the dice for me, most of my DVR/NVR systems are pretty small but I use HDs in piles of NAS. Just seems that I swap out more WDs than Seagates.
Inner10 is offline  
Old 02-13-2011, 03:40 AM   #16
Smart phone? Scan me!
 
nEighter's Avatar
 
Trade: Painting/Framing/Drywall
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tWiliGht zOne
Posts: 2,137
Rewards Points: 1,008

Re: Security Cameras


so what did you end up doing Dennis? I am wanting to start out with a cheap kit to try out, get some cameras around. Thinkin about a GE unit, 500gb for now. As far as cameras go.. there are SO many and diff kinds and types.. what would you guys seriously suggest for cameras? I was going to build a computer based unit using PCI cards, but found out that the actual connectors are different and that finding quality cameras would be a challenge.. I don't want challenge, I want it to work out the box for now.

so the plan is get it in place, then upgrade as I go. I know you guys gave suggestions above for Dennis in his situation.. so what cameras?
nEighter is offline  
Old 02-13-2011, 04:40 PM   #17
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 24,116
Rewards Points: 13,396

Re: Security Cameras


Quote:
what would you guys seriously suggest for cameras? I was going to build a computer based unit using PCI cards, but found out that the actual connectors are different and that finding quality cameras would be a challenge.. I don't want challenge, I want it to work out the box for now.
The computer DVR cards normally use BNC just like the cameras, they have a multipin dongle with a whole pile of BNC connectors.

Whats your budget? Read the above posts; if you want cheap then Capture and Everfocus are cheap.
Inner10 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post:
nEighter (02-15-2011)
Old 02-13-2011, 04:49 PM   #18
Chief outhouse engineer
 
dakzaag's Avatar
 
Trade: mason
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,418
Rewards Points: 786

Re: Security Cameras


I can't believe the numbers you guys are talking here. The stuff I have looked at that isn't pure junk starts at over $10,000 and if you start looking at decent night vision, then its double and triple.
__________________
D K & Sons
The maintenance schedule for brick
1. Stand back and say "man that looks nice!"
2. Repeat as often as needed.
dakzaag is offline  
Old 02-14-2011, 06:27 AM   #19
The Security Guy...
 
Security101's Avatar
 
Trade: "Alarm Company" CCTV PERS GPS 24Hr LV AV
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Security Cameras


Quote:
Originally Posted by dakzaag View Post
I can't believe the numbers you guys are talking here. The stuff I have looked at that isn't pure junk starts at over $10,000 and if you start looking at decent night vision, then its double and triple.
On a real install where evidence grade video is required I generally charge around 1k-1.5k per camera and depending on recording devices it can go way up from there!

Problem is that most cant afford that level of quality and will (or can) only go with the lower cost stuff - so we have to adapt - or start a lawn service

Jim
__________________
"Rest Assured - You're Secured"
Security101 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Security101 For This Useful Post:
dakzaag (02-14-2011), nEighter (02-15-2011)
Old 02-14-2011, 07:49 AM   #20
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 24,116
Rewards Points: 13,396

Re: Security Cameras


Depends on the job, I just installed 4 Axis P3344 Megapixle cams two weeks ago, that system came in over 10,000...But then next week I'm punching out a system with a cheap Speco DVR and 3 basic cameras which won't run more than 1600 bucks.

CCTV is probably 10% of my business, but out of all jobs I quote its the one that I get the most negative reactions from. Its almost like everyone thinks they can drop a grand and get a decent set of cameras and a DVR.

I'd say 50% of the time I don't even get to writing the quote after telling the person "if you arn't willing to pay a few grand don't even think about it".

Advertisement

Inner10 is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Residential Security Cameras LightYourNight Low Voltage 20 12-01-2009 05:24 PM
Job Box Security 480sparky Tools & Equipment 9 05-27-2009 12:02 PM
Security Camera Matrix Switch philcav7 Low Voltage 9 03-27-2009 01:38 PM
Security wire code?? Jason Whipple Low Voltage 24 03-19-2009 08:02 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?