Need some Brain Storming - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

ABLE1 · 10-15-2008, 10:06 PM

Hey All,

I know this a bit off topic but don't know where else to put it.

I have a customer that was renovating a 3 story apartment building. During
the renovation it was found that kids were climbing up the fire escape
ladder to the roof and having a party, not to mention the vandalism. So a
decision was made to cut off the ladder at 12 feet above the ground to stop
the action.

It was decided that when the renovations were complete they would install a
different ladder that would be in a UP position but when needed would be
lowered from the landing by the person in need of escape.

Well that time has come and when this was proposed to the City Fire
Department the FD said they will not allow this because the person that is
trying to escape may be afraid to use the ladder of this kind. And that the
only thing they will approve is the original ladder bolted to the wall all
the way to the ground.

Now I have been asked if I can come up with some way to stop or at least
deter activity UP the ladder to the roof.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this kind of issue????

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Les

mdshunk · 10-15-2008, 10:09 PM

Fire escape ladders and stairways have historically had the last 8 or 10 feet on a counterweight that would slide down on your way down, but was in the up position during a non-fire event I think I'd check some code books out before I took the fire department's say-so on anything. They can't just make stuff up, although they sometimes try. I would direct you to §1027.16 of the IFC, which specifically permits this.

The people at JOMY, who make counterbalanced and retractable ladders will also be able to provide you with code assistance to make the AHJ let you:
http://www.jomy.com/

Speedy Petey · 10-15-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdshunk

Fire escape ladders and stairways have historically had the last 8 or 10 feet on a counterweight that would slide down on your way down, but was in the up position during a non-fire event I think I'd check some code books out before I took the fire department's say-so on anything. They can't just make stuff up, although they sometimes try.

I agree.
I don't think I've ever seen a fire escape with the last section of ladder fixed all the way to ground level. They ALL pull down, or so I thought.

ABLE1 · 10-15-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdshunk

Fire escape ladders and stairways have historically had the last 8 or 10 feet on a counterweight that would slide down on your way down, but was in the up position during a non-fire event I think I'd check some code books out before I took the fire department's say-so on anything. They can't just make stuff up, although they sometimes try. I would direct you to §1027.16 of the IFC, which specifically permits this.

The people at JOMY, who make counterbalanced and retractable ladders will also be able to provide you with code assistance to make the AHJ let you:
http://www.jomy.com/

Thanks for the input Marc. I will look into as you suggest.

Aside for doing battle with City Fire Inspectors do you have any other thoughts on the challenge???

mdshunk · 10-16-2008, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABLE1

Aside for doing battle with City Fire Inspectors do you have any other thoughts on the challenge???

Normally, asking for the code citation that prevents you from doing what you suggest is the start and end of it all. Getting an engineer involved is the next step.

Security101 · 10-16-2008, 10:07 AM

Here's a thought, make it unpleasant for them to be there!

search (Mosquito™ Teenage Deterrent)

Jim

tommymcollins · 10-16-2008, 10:42 AM

ask them to show you it in the book [codes] , they seem to be making it up, gotta chose your battles , and time is money so , ball in your court
good luck

ABLE1 · 10-16-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Security101

Here's a thought, make it unpleasant for them to be there!

search (Mosquito™ Teenage Deterrent)

Jim

Thanks Jim,

Very interesting. Seems to be a UK item. I will look into it.

Les

ABLE1 · 10-16-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommymcollins

ask them to show you it in the book [codes] , they seem to be making it up, gotta chose your battles , and time is money so , ball in your court
good luck

This is not really my battle. It is the building owners. They seem to be fighting over a lot of other issues and may have just caved in on this one.

I plan to present my ideas as well as those expressed here to the owner and let him make a decision as to which way to go.

Thanks for the input.

Les

Security101 · 10-16-2008, 04:07 PM

I haven't had the opportunity to install the Mosquito yet but it is available in the US through alarm distributors and retail suppliers.

They work great from what I've read and us old guys cant hear it at all...

Jim

ABLE1 · 10-16-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Security101

I haven't had the opportunity to install the Mosquito yet but it is available in the US through alarm distributors and retail suppliers.

They work great from what I've read and us old guys cant hear it at all...

Jim

What???? What did you say??? Sorry I can't hear you???

I am way past the age for hearing anything, even my wife.

Security101 · 10-16-2008, 11:17 PM

Have you tried any of the online hearing frequency tests?

It is amazing what frequencies you cant hear after your teen years (or when your close to 50

)

Jim

ABLE1 · 10-17-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Security101

Have you tried any of the online hearing frequency tests?

It is amazing what frequencies you cant hear after your teen years (or when your close to 50

)

Jim

Depending upon the level that you can't hear there are expensive services that can help. These services are NOTcovered by insurance, and are only expected to last 3 to 5 years, then you do it all over again. Not something that you will enjoy doing.

Be well advised, take care of your hearing.

**ChrWright** · 10-17-2008, 05:40 AM

Just wait until one of those teens falls and busts their ass and the owner gets sued.

BuildingHomes · 10-17-2008, 07:34 AM

The ladder leads up to a hatch or door?

How about a sign that states "Fire Alarm Will Sound Upon Opening Door"

You'd probably have to actually wire it to the fire alarm then, but I'm sure it will keep the kids from using it.

Maybe put a camera there and tie it to the CCTV system too.

Synacom · 10-17-2008, 11:18 AM

With regard to codes, it depends on what person you talk to, what day it is, what phase of the moon, relative humidity and several other factors. I just bought a building and received several different answers from several different zoning officers on whether or not I needed a permit to replace windows. As previously mentioned, ask to see the relevant part of the code in writing, then get a copy for yourself.

Security101 · 10-17-2008, 07:43 PM

I've used these before, very high end... (would need to be connected to a power-supply and some kinda siren or buzzer)

www {dot} protechusa.com/Applications/ChemicalandWaterUtilities.htm

Jim

(sorry for the link issue, i'm gettin closer to 15 posts

)

Security101 · 10-17-2008, 07:51 PM

They actually have one that does this...

"The Direction Control Versions of the PIRAMID XL offer a field adjustable switch to control the direction of a target based on the direction of movement. A three-position digital switch allows the sensor to be set to detect 1) only approaching targets, 2) only receding targets or 3) both approaching and receding targets."

This would help, knowing the difference between someone going up and someone coming down (say in an emergency), to not scare the stuff out of someone exiting...

Jim

ABLE1 · 10-19-2008, 09:45 PM

Sorry I was out of town a few days and am not getting caught up

I have made my suggestions to the owner. I won't know for a while if the wind will be blowing in a different direction any time soon.

Thanks to all for the thoughts and suggestions. All very helpful.

Les