Help Me On A Sound / TV System

GregS

I took a 3 hour course this morning on HDMI. It reminded me of many things I already knew and I will mention some of them here..

1) HDMI is a giant fcuk up. It is a standard that was pretty much implemented just so Hollywood could wrap content protection around the signal and prevent you from being able to watch/record anything or something for which it wasn't intended.

2) It has a very lackluster list of standards that are not entirely implemented between manufactures.

3) Cable/sat boxes are very cheaply made. Mainly because the cable/sat companies are giving them away they usually pick the cheapest models available from the manufactures. These cheap models can lack some features such as audio over HDMI. Even different revisions of firmware within the same model causes issues (like HDMI not working at all)

4) It's only going to be getting worse. Now that providers are starting to turn on the content protection flags, much of your analogue signals between device and display are going to stop working. Meaning, the movie studios can start turning on the 'digital only' flags on the BluRay discs they send out and therefore require that the movie only be viewable through an HDMI cable connected to an HDMI device capable of handling content protection. This is going to be a huge problem for anyone that distributes video within a house, corporate offices, business, a bar, etc..

So to answer your question regarding audio over HDMI, you can pretty much assume that all DVD players will do it. Most AV Receivers will use it, but many also just pass it through and ignore the audio. Most TVs will do it, but will not re-encode it as analogue audio to go out the stereo RCA pair.

philcav7

Using analog audio out of the TV (when using HDMI audio/video in to the television) sometimes causes timing and lip sync issues on the audio from the receiver. You might be better off using optical cables from the cable box and dvd player to avoid this complication (if the receiver has digital audio inputs).

As others mention, Sonance and Russound have nice 6 channel speakers selectors with individual volume adjustment.

mdshunk

That was my opinion as of a year ago, but I really didn't have much to base that on. When a new standard comes out, my question is normally, "What's in it for me"? HDMI left me wondering. Thanks for the summary. My gut was right.

Anybody making HDMI to coax baluns yet?

GregS

They barely have cat5/6 baluns working yet.

The Crestron distributed HDMI solution actually uses a shielded cat6 looking cable that is capable of 1.2GHz. That's about 6x the cat6 spec.

RG6 may be able to do up to 3GHz, but over a single conductor. It may come about someday, but for lower resolutions.

CNC

so here is an update, i got a speaker selector, to balance the impedance on the speakers, it was an inexpensive option for what i was dealing with.

I bought 2-25' foot hdmi to run to the television, for the DVD player, and the cable box, tested it, and the audio works.

the stereo has the 6 speakers wired to the selector, then to the HK receiver. The ipod is the only thing hooked to the Receiver. Like i said before, I would like the option to play the audio from the television onto the speakers wired to the tuner. So bought a 25' set of RCA cables, and took them from the back of the TV AUDIO OUT, and put them on the receiver, the only input i can get them to work on is the CD player input, but there is a ton of feedback on the speakers when the audio is playing.

I think my problem must be because i have the audio going to the TV on HDMI cables, and then the audio going to the reciever from the TV, on analog RCA cables.

The reason i didnt bring the dvd player and cable box to the tuner first, is because there is only composite inputs on it. I dont know if the TV has digital outputs, i will look, its a series 5 samsung.

what a pain, trying to make his stuff work, it was all looking basic, till the audio sounded like crap.

any ideas? besides change the receiver.

i could hook the cable box, and DVD player to the tuner, with composite, and leave the HDMI going to the tv, but will the audio be delayed like you guys said, or would that work using both outputs of the componet.

On the HK tuner, the video 1 and 2 and 3 inputs, only look like they work, if you also hook the sources video up with it, but i want digital, and there is only composite on this tuner. AHHH>

GregS

I told ya how to hook this up twice already..

Just connect:

A stereo RCA pair from the audio out on the cable box to an input on the receiver

A stereo RCA pair from the audio out on the DVD player to another inputs on the receiver.

Do not use the TV Audio out. It's doubtful it will downgrade a digital audio signal to analogue.

When you want to see something, change the input on the TV.

When you want to hear something, change the input on the receiver.

I don't know why you are referring to composite video, you are doing video through HDMI. If there is a slight delay in the audio between what you see on the TV and hear on the receiver, then tell them they can pay more to upgrade their system.


You won't like my answer.

CNC

ok ok, you win. But i noticed on the hk3490 (the harmon kardon receiver) the video inputs dont seem to work without video input also, ( a ,red yellow, and white)

i will get some RCA cables, and go for this....

GregS

Then plug them into audio only inputs. Or plug composite video into them. It shouldn't make any difference what so ever.

HomeMedia Pros

CNC can you please draw a diagram and post or PM. The reason this is not working on Harman Kardon is because of programming required to do so.

You have to connect your sources as follows. I suggest for DVD and Cable use COAX audio 1 and 2. then Connect Ipod to AUX.

Run two HDMI cables dirrectly to TV will make life simple (Trust me)

Now connect Ipod either via HK Ipod dock, or via cable from headphone jack to AUX RCA in the back.

Now in menu Assign COAX 1 - DVD Coax 2 CBL/SAT or TV (whatever you like).

TO watch TV via Speakers: Put receiver on TV and TV on correct HDMI input
TO watch DVD via Speakers: Put receiver on DVD and RV on correct HDMI input
TO listen to IPOD via Speakers: Put receiver on AUX and TV on HDMI of whatever you want to watch.

NOTE: All HK receivers are 8ohm and 4ohm switchable. So feel free to change to acomodate your setup. you dont need a speaker selector.
BONUS: HK has FRONT A and FRONT B which are separate amps inside that unit. This means you can put 4 speakers on A in 4ohm and 2 on B in 8ohm

This assumes you have HK which is not older than 2003.

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HomeMedia Pros

What class did you take ? Starting version 1.2 HDMI functions can be turned on/off at each component. For example if your DVD connected to RECEIVER via HDMI and RECEIVER TO TV via HDMI you can:
1. Tell receiver to pass it to TV. 2. Tell TV To not receive it. 3. Tell receiver to only pass On/Off to TV and so forth. There is only one brand of TV that does not get it (JvC) but who buys them anyway. HDMI is the way to go. Its binary, no loss of signal, color, or anything else.

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MALCO.New.York

All that need be done is RCA's FROM the Samsung to the Receiver.

How much time does it take to select "Input" on the front of the receiver???

You do not even have to have the TV on mute. Samsungs have an Internal/External speaker choice function in "Settings". Choosing "External" will nullify the on-board TV speakers.

They also have "Fixed or Variable Volume" output function selector. (You want fixed).

Fixed means that the volume button on the remote will NOT effect the volume of the output.

No need to purchase a new receiver nor a switcher!

This is a fairly simple and easy installation.


But since this is a post that is 2 months old, I would imagine that this has all been figured out and overcome.



Post Script: The average Joe will not know the difference between an HDMI image and an RG59 (no not 6) picture quality unless the two images are right there for comparison.

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GregS

You are making a huge assumption that everyone is doing it the same way.

The course was a Crestron product introduction for their Digital Media line. They spent more time talking about HDMI and it's shortcomings as opposed to their actual product.

HomeMedia Pros

oh yes, Crestron. Great product. If I am not mistaken the only HDMI they support is matrix switch which is controlled by RS232 (developed before i was born). HDMI has a bad reputation from early days, you can not believe how many issues we had with say Denon HDMI1.2 being different from Sony TV HDMI1.2. The early days are far gone. The only issue i can think of is JVC related. If you are dealing wit pre 2007 equipment you might have these issues. But post 2007 they all have error corection with exception of JVC that i know of. You are also correct we are talking major brands, I am not sure of Vizio, Sampo, Make Your Own Plasma, and other El Chipo tv makers.

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thom

Don't forget the fees that go to BMI. They charge you to have a tv and to have a radio. You pay based on occupancy. I remodeled a truck stop that got nailed for having a tv for truckers to watch while waiting. I'm president of a non-profit club that got nailed for having a radio and a tv.

If you are in any way commercial, you pay the man to use radio, music, or tv.

GregS

Um no.
http://www.crestron.com/solutions/di..._distribution/


I used to have a lot of problems with Samsung TVs and getting them to sync. I haven't seen anything from JVC here in a long time, they just aren't sold at the mass retailers.

The other big issue is the cable/sat boxes. The companies still state they do not officially support HDMI.


The software switch to HDMI is coming. It happened in the UK last year when the dish supplier there sent a signal down the line that turned off all the component outputs. It will happen in North America probably within 2 years.

Audio Visual

I think you meant to say "Run a stereo RCA pair from the cable box to the Reciever" not to the TV. (Sorry Just realized how log ago this was posted. :-))

ampman

wow igot my first vcr about 3 years ago i think i'am a little behind