Do You Pull Cat3 Anymore?

dcapone

I am looking for a good reason (if one exists) to continue pulling Cat3 cabling.

With difference in cost between a 1000' foot spool of 2 pair Cat3 cable and Cat 5e cable being around $20 from our suppliers, I am really at a loss as to why I should not simply pull the Cat 5e to the phone jacks.

What I am thinking of doing is continuing to use Cat3 keystone jacks to avoid any confusion between which jack is phone versus data and only punching down 2 pairs of the cat 5e on 66 blocks and leaving a loop of cable at the termination point. The result would be that the cat 5e would be in the walls and that if the jack was repurposed in the future in would simply require a jack change and repunching down the cable on a 110 block rather than rerunning an entire cable.

Is there any flaw in my logic/other benefit I am missing of pulling a Cat3 cable?

ABLE1

Personally I use Cat3 4 pair not 2 pair. Allows a total of 4 dial tones at each wall plate. Also always use RJ11 for phone to keep people from being confused with what will fit. I have been holding on to the theory that Phone is Phone and Data is Data. Cat3 is easier work with as well. Visibly looking at the cable and knowing where it is going means a lot to me. As you describe changing the cable use in the future it would be my suggestion to be sure and make a large service loop so that you can re-direct the cable to the data point.

I was called to do the final punch down of about 50 Cat5 (Blue) cables that were to be designated for phone and data by an electrician that was asked to pull the cables. Their theory was; what is the problem a wire is a wire, right???

Well the electrician pulled the cables to the same location in the closet and did not tag either end of the cables. Can we say T&M

Anyhow I may change my tune when Cat3 goes the way of the 8 Track Tape but for now I carry both in my van.

Have a good Friday and weekend.

Les

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ABLE1

dcapone

Thanks for the input.

In the case of 4 pair cat3, the pricing delta is even smaller. From our supplier there is no difference.

Do you typically punch all 4 pairs of the Cat3 down? I typically like to punch the jack wiring down on only 1 side of the 66 blocks. When punching 2 pairs for phone, it allows me room for up to 12 jacks versus 6 jacks if I were to punch down 4 pairs. Given that most residents' have only a single line and most commercial key systems only use 1 pair per extension, punching all 4 pairs down for a voice jack always seemed wasteful to me.

Based on your response, it appears that your primary reason for still pulling Cat3 is the ability to visually look a cable and see its purpose. It is actually a very good point to which I would respond with the suggestion of using different colored jackets, one for data, and one for voice and your problem is solved.

As mentioned in my original post, I would also use the logic of still using a Cat3 Jack in the wall for avoid the confusion between data and voice for the end-user.

Still looking for someone to convince that Cat3 hasn't already gone the way of the 8 track :-).

ABLE1

I do punch down all 4 pairs. It makes for easy reconfig if it needs to be. At the jack I connect the blue and orange pair on the first jack and wrap back the green and brown pair.

As for any technical advantage for Cat5 on a phone line, there isn't any.

I really find working with Cat3 easier. Especially at the 66 block. Since I a may be a dinosaur on the color issue and yes I could go with different colors on Cat5. If you find that your are comfortable with your scheme of things then go for it. For now I will remain the dinosaur. As a matter of fact I will be pulling Cat 3 tomorrow.

Les

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ABLE1

mdshunk

For the cost difference, I simplify the truck stock and just carry Cat 5e. If I was strictly a low-voltage guy, I'd do Cat 3 for voice and Cat 5e for data. Since I'm just a sparky, I just run the 5e for both. If I'm doing a bigger job, I do at least get different jacket colors for each. The places I shop at normally have white and blue every day, and yellow some days.

ABLE1

Marc.

I would totally trust you to tag all ends of the CAT5 cables for sorting when it comes time for termination.

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ABLE1

mdshunk

Uh-huh. If I don't have tags or booklet numbers handy, I'll write on them with a pen or put tick marks on them with a Sharpie. On tick for cable one, two ticks for cable two, etc... Anything's better than nothing. Normally, it's me terminating them anyhow.

GregS

cat3 still has it's uses for additions or fixes of any house where a line is cat3 or quad (or worse, that thick black brittle wire from the 50s)

Many new houses here are still built with looped cat3 because it's the quickest, cheapest thing their ELECTRICIAN can use.

I did a couple of fix-it phone jobs today.. Old houses, pulled with quad. I ran cat3 to replace some of the quad.

I roughed-in two new houses yesterday and did all home run cat5e.

I keep just a single box of cat3 on the truck and it will last me about a year. I keep 4 boxes of cat5 on the truck and they usually last a month.

mdshunk

What are you calling "quad", BuldingHomes? Is that the b,g,y,b stuff I normally call "POTS cable"?

GregS

Yes, we call it quad here. 22g, 4 conductor.. Which I also keep at least 4 boxes of on the truck for vacs and security.

mdshunk

Okay, got it. The FCC won't let us run that stuff for phones in the States anymore. The legal min is Cat3. I'm pretty sure I have part of a box of Cat3 around someplace. I should try to use it up somewhere. Fifty bucks is fifty wasted bucks if I don't use it.

GregS

There's a legal min? I had someone post in a forum a while back saying their new house was run with quad..

cat3 is good for fixin' old stuff.

mdshunk

Yes, indeed. Federal law, if you can believe it:

47CFR68.213(c) Material requirements.
(1) For new installations and modifications to
existing installations, copper conductors shall be, at a minimum, solid, 24
gauge or larger, twisted pairs that comply with the electrical
specifications for Category 3, as defined in the ANSI EIA/TIA Building
Wiring Standards.

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Ca...0/fcc99405.doc

ABLE1

The last time the FCC inspector came on the job was the day my wire stretcher broke. I'm still look for part to get it fixed. Sure was a nice tool to carry in the van. I have to be so so careful now when pulling wire.

That box of $50 wire should be worth a whole lot more today.

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ABLE1

mdshunk

From a practical standpoint, you're right. It not like the Attorney General of The United States is going to file a case against you for wiring someone's house phones with POTS cable. It's a good rule to know about, and something to pull out if someone ever asks why you're using Cat3 when POTS cable is "good enough". Realistically, nobody's going to federal prison or getting federal level fines if they use it.

ABLE1

Not to mention the loss of sleep worrying about it.

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ABLE1

dcapone

Thanks guys.

I agree with Cat3 still having its uses when performing repairs, etc. While I didn't specify, my question was more pertaining to new construction and complete rewires where every jack in the structure was rewired.

I appreciate all the input.

ABLE1

Well today was the day that the earth stood still..............................

I called the wire dist. to get some wire pricing so as to place an order for some needed stock.

As of today Cat3 is now $20 more that Cat5. Now that really bites.

So I do not take back anything that I said but, I now must say that I am being FORCED to switch to Cat5 for all my phone work.

Please excuse me while I will go and sulk in a corner for a few minutes.

Hope your days went better.

Les

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ABLE1

gajtguy

I'm a little late for the party, but I always use Cat5e for all new work. With the multiple jacket colors available, I'd make my own standard: Blue for data, Grey for Phone. This also applies to any camera work you may be doing. White vs Black for CATV or CCTV...

Security101

My minimum is Cat5e for voice and data, haven't used cat3 for a few years. I have found that with new customer requests having a few extra pair in each hole is nice...

Definitely agree with the different jacket colors!

Jim

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