Cat5e For Phone

toastermaker

I can give the long story of how I got to this point if anyone wants, but for now to make a long story short:

I have ran cat5e as phone wire in some homes. It is daisy chained.

Now its time to trim out and when it came to the phone jacks my boss said "just hook it up color to color".

It seems that isn't going to happen.

What would be the best way to wire these phone jacks?

If I only use certain of the wires for the phone will that leave room for future expansion such as dsl or additional phone lines?

I am prepared to get raked over the coals about this, but I hope someone throws in some guidance also.

Have fun and Thanks for any replies,

jbfan

Since the colors don't match, you have to pick the colors you want to use from the cat5, make all your phone connections using the same colors and count this as a lesson. Dsl does not need any other wires to work, but you could make 2 phone lines. Next time don't dasiy chain, make home runs!

__________________
We are the people (our parents warned us about) (Jimmy Buffett)

stars13bars2

If you are asking for color codes the accepted matches are:
green = white/blue
red = blue/white
black = white/orange
yellow = orange/white

hope this helps.

toastermaker

Thanks jbfan,

So I could salvage some possible future use as an additional phone line by only using four of the eight wires at this time?

With phone lines, what is the gest of daisy vs home runs?

On this same job I had to yank a bunch of daisy chained coax and replace it with home runs. I was told it was because Satalite (as opposed to catv) requires home runs for each room. Nobody mentioned home runs for the phone however.

Thanks again,

ABLE1

Agreed, that having the phone wiring with home runs is the best way for any future considerations. Daisy Chaining will work but can cause trouble for any future service tech to trouble shoot. So if you don't want to have somebody a few years down the road chewing about the wiring that you have done, just do a home run of all cables a make him a happy guy/gal.

The next thing is to use a proper color pattern. Depending on the phone jacks most will have colors of (red-green) (yellow-black). They are Line-1 and Line 2 respectively. As for the jack configuration on a RJ-11 Jack they are the center pair and the outer pair respectively.

As for the Cat-5 cable you will find the following,
blue pair(twisted) Line 1
orange pair(twisted) Line 2
green pair(twisted) Line 3
brown pair(twisted) Line 4
They need to be consider in that order.

You will also notice if you look closely you will see that each pair, one conductor is a solid color and the other has a base white color with a color stripe. This can be very important when you consider that the phone company considers a individual dial tone has what is called TIP and RING. The Tip and Ring has a relationship of + positive and - negative. To keep everything correct like the phone company does, the tip and ring need to be on the proper terminal for connections.

On the RJ11 jack the green and red terminals are tip and ring respectively.
the black and yellow terminals are tip and ring respectively.

As for Cat-5 wire is concerned the conductor that has the base white with colored stripe is tip and the solid color is ring.

Therefore the at the phone Demarc or NIC (the gray box outside the house) you would connect the base white w/ blue colored stripe to the green terminal and the demarc and the same to the green terminal on the jack. The solid blue conductor would go to the red terminal.

You should connect the orange pair in similar manner to the black and yellow terminals at all jacks so that if a Line 2 is desired it just needs to be connected at the demarc.

Since it is daisy chained it would be best to splice all green and brown pairs at all jacks.

Now if you have read this far my hope is that all have gained something. The next part is a little rant.

When Cat-5 wire is installed for phone wiring in a residence and most commerical sites IT PROVIDES ABSOLUTELY NO TECHNICIAL ADVANTAGE for having a phone conversation with your mother. The phone company uses Cat-3 or less from the Central Office CO to the house that could be 6 to 10 miles away. Cat-5 is of no advantage. It is harder to work with than Cat-3 4 Pair Twisted. But it seems that since Cat-5 is the latest buzz word that is sold to the customer. And if remember my last pricing Cat-3 is a few bucks cheaper that Cat-5.

So remember the following. Always make home runs. Always use proper color coding at connections. If you use Cat-5 remember what I said above.

Hope this helps you and others that were wondering.

Have a good day.

Les

toastermaker

Thanks stars13bars2,

Yes, if that is a standard color connection for cat5 to phone jacks then I really appreciate it, although I will have to think for a minute to make sense of it!

Thanks again,

toastermaker

Many thanks ABEL1,

You have shed good light on this for me.



Edit to add a question for ABEL1

In the future if I am allowed to run homes runs for phone lines and am still using cat5, how should the brown and green pairs be delt with, at the jacks?

Thanks again,

ABLE1

Your welcome,

A little brain trick that may help. Tip and Ring Green and Red

Remember:

Ring is Red

Green is the other and must be the Tip

Associate the Green with Ground and Black as Ground or Negative or what ever you feel will help.

Therefore Black is Tip and Yellow is Ring

As for the Cat-5

The base color white with color stripe is always Tip.
Of course the solid color conductor must be the other or Ring.

Hope this helps all as well.

Les

jbfan

Thanks able. I learned something also.

__________________
We are the people (our parents warned us about) (Jimmy Buffett)

mdshunk

Do not cut them off. Wrap/wind them back around the jacket of the cable and these will be your "spare pairs".

ABLE1

So tell me jbfan just what did you learn in my little disertation???

For all here is a few trivia questions. Can anyone answer them??


What does the RJ stand for as it relates to RJ-11 or RJ-45 etc.??

Why is the phone wiring called Tip and Ring???

Why do we call a switch circuit that can turn on a light from
two locations a 3-Way Switch???

Why is a 9 volt battery smaller than a D-Size that only has 1.5 volts.

Why doesn't a ducks quack echo??

Film at 11!!!

Les

toastermaker

Thanks mdshunk,

rj = regestered jack

tip and ring is from parts of the old phono type plugs that were used with switchboards

and just some guessing;

because there are three terminals on the switch?

something to do with the higher the volts the lower the amps?

and last but not least, duck quacks dont echo because they dont live in the Alps or Caves

mdshunk

The original switchboard plugs had tip, ring, and sleeve (the biggest metal part, just past the tip and the ring). The sleeve is the ground. We have mostly loop start lines now (always in a dwelling), so we don't need the sleeve. A great deal of PBX stuff has ground start lines, but they draw dial tone with a common ground buss (technically the sleeve), but we don't really refer to it that way anymore.

ABLE1

This is cool, everyone is getting some reverse education.

Mdshunk got the Tip and Ring correct.

toastermaker got the RJ correct and the Tip and Ring but Mdshunk had a more complete answer.

Good job guys.

These still need some work.

Why do we call a switch circuit that can turn on a light from
two locations a 3-Way Switch???

Why is a 9 volt battery smaller than a D-Size that only has 1.5 volts.

Why doesn't a ducks quack echo??


This is fun!!!!

mdshunk

The switch has three terminals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABLE1 Why is a 9 volt battery smaller than a D-Size that only has 1.5 volts.

The D cell has more milliamp/hours, therefore the larger size. It's more "saturated". A group of D cells connected to 9 volts will last 20 times longer than a standard 9 volt transistor radio battery connected to the same load.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABLE1 Why doesn't a ducks quack echo??

Because the frequency of the duck's quack is roughly 180 degrees out of phase with the natural harmonic of natural reflective surfaces. It is essentially absorbed by the potential echoing surface, in much the same way that the Bose electronic noise cancelling headsets work.

ABLE1

Well almost. But why not call it a three terminal switch instead of a 3-Way Switch????


Actually a D cell has only 1.5 volts and a 9 volt has 9 volts. It has little to do with the milliamp/hours and more to do with the volts. Take a old (dead) 9 volt battery and tear off the connector end and look inside. It is an interesting sight to behold.


That is the best explanation I have heard in a long time. It is said by the experts of Duck Quacks that they just don't know why. So may be you got something there Mdshunk. However we may never know for sure.

So the score is now:

Mdshunk got the Tip and Ring correct.

toastermaker got the RJ correct and the Tip and Ring but Mdshunk had a more complete answer.

Mdshunk will have roast duck for dinner.

Keep trying.

Les

mdshunk

Yes, it has everything to do with milliamp/hours. A D cell is not a battery. It is a cell. A nine volt is a battery. A battery is a collection of cells, each 1.5 volts. It is quite improper to call a D cell a battery. A battery is only a battery when it is a collection of cells so assembled.

Like I said before, but didn't register with you... if you assemble a group of D cells into a 9 volt battery and apply it to the same load as a single 9 volt transistor radio battery, the D cells will last much much longer. There is more current stored per 1.5 volt cell in the consist D cell assembled battery as there is in the regular smaller cells inside the 9 volt transistor radio battery.

ABLE1

"The D cell has more milliamp/hours, therefore the larger size. It's more "saturated". A group of D cells connected to 9 volts will last 20 times longer than a standard 9 volt transistor radio battery connected to the same load."


My error, yes a D size "Cell" is just that. And Yes it is terminology issue. A lot of people don't realize that there are multiple cells in a 9 volt "battery".

However it would seem that you are not with the "lot of people" group.

Good job.

Les

mdshunk

The switch has three terminals. Common, and two switchted terminals. More accurately, it is a single pole, double throw switch. It has two "on" positions. The third way (or position) is "center off", which is a holdover from the old days of open knife switches. With a modern snap switch, the mechinism inside makes it difficult to impossible to utilize the center off. So, the three ways are ON-CENTER OFF-ON. Three way switch is just a term that is held over from the bygone days.

ABLE1

Maybe but then it may not apply to a 4-way light circuit.

My understanding is that it comes from the Brits. Way back 'in the day' they called wires "ways". Hence and 3-way had 3 wires and a 4-way had 4 wires. And the Brits influence has stuck ever since.

Thanks for the fun.

Later,

Les