Cat-5 Splicing

 
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:54 PM   #1
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Cat-5 Splicing


I need to move a cat-5 and coaxial cable outlet a couple of feet over onto another wall. I've never spliced cat-5 and need some help.

The current box will act as a junction box for the wires, I need to splice the cables and run them an additional 2 feet into a new box. How do you splice cat-5? I imagine it's just like NM-14, minus the cap. Do I tape? I also imagine the coaxial getting capped.

Can you help?

This is my own project. I'm intalling custom cabinets and need to move the box. Thanks in advance
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:40 AM   #2
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Splicing the coax will be no problem if you have the right tools and connectors.

Splicing cat5 cable is generally not recommended, as there is very little chance that you can match the original twist ratio of the conductors to maintain the integrity of the cable. I have seen occasions where the wires were twisted as close to the original configuration as possible, soldered, and taped, but doing so might increase the chance of signal problems and lowering the throughput. I wouldn't do it though, not even for myself.

Can you pull the cable back to some distant point and rerun it to give you the length you need to get to the new location?

The only other solutions I can think of are running a new cable, or possibly terminating the old one with an RJ-45 plug and using a female/female connector, and joining a new piece with a RJ-45 connector to get where you need to go and terminate it to the jack, again I am not sure about the integrity of this type of splice though. Someone else might know.

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Last edited by firemike; 07-29-2007 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:03 AM   #3
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Cat5e cable is so cheap, it's darned near free. The connectors to splice on a few feet would cost 3 times as much as running a new cable. I'd look into the feasibility of running a new cable as a first option. Lacking that option, I'd probably crimp on an RJ-45 end on the old cable, use a Cat5 rated modular coupler, and run a short patch cable from that coupler to the new jack location. This is probably your best option for a short extension, although it will still effect the measurable performance of the network. Depending on your network speed, it is very likely that you'll never notice, but it will be measurable if you measured it.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:47 AM   #4
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Thanks guys

Rerunning new cable would be too much work since it's in a condo and the outlet is out of a concrete wall. I'll give the RJ-45 thing a go. Thanks again.
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Old 08-14-2007, 07:39 PM   #5
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Hold on here a minute. This is the problem when we use CAT5 cable for anything and everything. WHAT is it being used for? If it's ethernet data and it connects a computer to another computer or network then, yeah you should run another cable if at all possible.

But I get the feeling that this is just for a telephone jack. In that case you will have no problem splicing though it isn't a good idea to bury the splice in the wall. Your supply house should have Scotchlock UYs or those white beanies that the alarm guys use. You are supposed to use a special crimper with each of these but if you are real careful pliers work fine.

-Hal
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:11 PM   #6
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


It's for ethernet. I bought the crimpers but ended up not using them. I bought RJ45's as well. My neighbour turned out to be a low-volt guy and came in and clamped the wires using "B" connectors (I'm pretty sure that's what he called them). He also advised me not to close up the wall completely but leave a plug cap so I can acess it in the future at the splice.

I spliced the #14 wire outlet in like 30 seconds, into the new box. Then I spent 3 friggin days figuring out how to move the ethernet.

Long story short, I didn't use RJ45s. I even had to drive to another town to buy RJ45 modular couplers (2 of them). The only place tha thad them in stock. Didn't use those either.

Thanks for the feedback though guys, appreciate it. Needless to say, I learned something new...priceless
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:14 PM   #7
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


If he used B wire connectors for network, while it aparently works for you, that's royal hack work.
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:08 PM   #8
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


I'll kill him.

I don't doubt it. My theory, based off the info you guys gave me, was to:

Cut wire, clamp RJ
Attach coupler
New Cat-5 wire with RJ attached
The end of that wire runs to another RJ45
coupler
RJ45 with wire, which attaches to the outlet.
Done.

He said that's too complicated...too many RJ45's, too many chances of screwing up connection at different points.

His theory?
Cut wire
B clamp to new extension wire
B clamp to outlet.
Done

I said cool, how about a whiskey?

Good thing I got the plug cap, accesing the splices won't be a prob.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:15 AM   #9
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Like MD said, hacks can do it and make it "work", that doean't mean it's right. A "professional" NEVER would have spliced cat5 like that, NEVER! Phone lines (cat3), but not cat5 data lines.

I was just working on a house Monday and noticed whoever hooked up the new hot water heater ran 2 - #10 THHN (single conductor wires), no ground, no conduit or protection of any kind, just stapled them to the bottom of the floor joists from the panel (not even a bushing in the KO) across the basement, through the laundery room, to the heater. Yeah, it works, but.... His "buddy" saved him from having to spend good money to hire an electrician.

Anyway, hopefully it will work for you, if not, you will live the ever popular cliche, "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later"

or a favorite constuction trade saying:

We never have time to do it right the first time, but we always have time to go back and do it right the second time.

Good Luck!
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Old 08-15-2007, 11:20 AM   #10
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Because we're on the subject of splicing Cat5, I have a question on some work I was asked to perform. The red button type splicing cap ........whats it called?

I've used it for phone, and Cat5 only once at a customers determined request. I wanted to run new line. It worked flawlessly beside my advice not too, kinda made me look like I was trying to gouge the job.

It was a business network.
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:24 PM   #11
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


The red button type splicing cap ........whats it called?

That would be a Scotchlock UR. It will take three wires. The UY that I talked about above is yellow, smaller than a UR and takes two wires.

Those "B" connectors are "beanies". They used to be used by the telcos but they have been replaced by the UY and UR. About the only trade that uses them now are the alarm guys.

-Hal
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Old 08-15-2007, 06:52 PM   #12
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Quote:
Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
Those "B" connectors are "beanies". They used to be used by the telcos but they have been replaced by the UY and UR. About the only trade that uses them now are the alarm guys.
I still use them for phone lines. Why? Cost. Scotchlocks are about 12 cents each when B-conns are about 3 cents. And yes, I strip my wires before I shove them in there.

Scotchlocks get used by the telco here outside since they are 'waterproof'.

I don't do alarms. Don't want to pay the insurance premiums.
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:55 AM   #13
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


There are "B" connectors with gel inside also. The reason the telcos abandoned them is because they were unreliable when used as designed- you weren't supposed to strip the wires. Of course if you do that problem goes away but when you have large numbers of splices stripping and twisting is impractical.

I hear you about alarm work.

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Old 08-17-2007, 08:18 PM   #14
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


I wish i had that type of set up in my house but i don't. My cable tv runs down in the crawl space then just comes up through the hole for the copper baseboard pipe in the rooms where i have tv. You know what i mean. On copper baseboard at the end you have like a tin access panel thats where my cable comes out of for my tvs.
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:07 PM   #15
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


That's what's called future proofing. Just think, you won't have to cut holes in your walls or fish wiring when some new wiring technology comes out. Just pull the old stuff out and stick the new in.

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Old 10-22-2010, 12:27 AM   #16
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasshousebltr View Post
Because we're on the subject of splicing Cat5, I have a question on some work I was asked to perform. The red button type splicing cap ........whats it called?

I've used it for phone, and Cat5 only once at a customers determined request. I wanted to run new line. It worked flawlessly beside my advice not too, kinda made me look like I was trying to gouge the job.

It was a business network.
The problem with doing substandard work like splicing Cat 5 or better cable is that you very likely have no way to measure just what degradation you have introduced. Just because a computer can access a web page, doesn't mean the data is being received flawlessly. The splice could be causing the data to be partially corrupted and dropping bits, causing the TCP protocol to have to resend some packets, which would result in a slow down of the full data rate possible. It's not like it will just stop working, no! it will degrade in performance. That is why a good data installation will certify each and every CAT run, end to end, and present the property owner (customer) with a report of that certification showing each outlet/run, and the measured parameters and the test results. Parameters like pair to pair skewing, Near end cross talk, etc. Any connection of any type will cause a shift in line impedance, and any impedance mismatch will result is some energy being reflected back to the source. If that reflection travels the "right" electrical distance, it can change the state of bits that follow. If you had been able to certify your splice, you could have shown on-the-spot errors, and then been able to have sold the replacement cable.

The higher the data rate used in the cable, the more good connections matter to the quality of the signal. There is a lot of technology that goes into the design of high quality data cables. Just putting a sharp bend in a data cable, or using cable ties to bundle cables in a run, will show up in data testing. Just think how much more splices will degrade a good cable.

This idea that a cable spliced with UR or 'B' or beanies is flawless is only an indication of your lack of testing capabilities. Every connector put on the end of a cable will present some amount of degration, the question is can you live with that level for the data you are carrying in your cable?

Cable replacement can be very expensive and complicated depending on the routing. While the cost of the cable may be least of the costs involved, it is understandable why someone would consider some form of splicing, but can your present usage or especially your future usage stand the degradation?

If you would like to understand this better, I suggest you read some of the books on the subject of cable, by experts such as Steve Lampen.
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:52 PM   #17
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Hi jgood4U,

You might consider a introduction for your first post. Whoops already to late for that. Try it on your second post.

All very good information. Just be aware that the thread you revived was started and ended in 2007. But still all very good information. Hope it reaches those that need it the most.

Thanks,

Les
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:15 PM   #18
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


I would have to second that as being a good post. I've been running Cat 5 for years doing by a certain standard of using the best connectors, straightest runs, and using a great deal of care to make sure there aren't any sharp bends or kinks in the wire for professionalism sake.

On the other hand , the adage says that it's the plumber's house that has the most leaks and it would have to be true for my Cat 5 and coax runs at home. I have a few temporary drops that I slapped in just so I can get on the internet until I have a chance to fully wire up the whole house properly.

But one day I decided to bring my test equipment in from the truck to change out batteries and to shake the wire fragments out of the case. So I used my home network to test my equipment and I was SHOCKED at the amount of errors that I was getting!
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:58 PM   #19
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


You can extend Cat5 no issue.

Go into any commercial data center and you will seem several patch points that typically exist between the servers and the switches.

Typical connection probably looks like:

Switch -> patch cable -> patch panel -> cat5 -> patch panel in rack -> patch cable to server

This is standard practice in just about any data center and meets all TIA/EIA standards. Just terminate your existing wire with Cat5 ends, and get a cat5 coupler. As long as you dont exceed 100m, you'll be fine.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:38 AM   #20
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Re: Cat-5 Splicing


Quote:
Originally Posted by ABLE1 View Post
Hi jgood4U,

You might consider a introduction for your first post. Whoops already to late for that. Try it on your second post.

All very good information. Just be aware that the thread you revived was started and ended in 2007. But still all very good information. Hope it reaches those that need it the most.

Thanks,

Les
I wasn't planning this post, but was thinking about splicing CAT 5 when someone I was working for wanted to do it when the run came up short a few feet. One way to extend a cable would be to properly punch it down to a 110 block, so I was searching to see if something like that or other well engineered connection could be purchased, when I ran into this site and read this thread. While I realized the timeliness of the thread had long passed, I thought about how many others might find this as I did via a search engine, and not realize what they were about to bit off, especially after that comment I quoted about the connection being flawless. I just felt something needed to be said to keep people from making these mistakes. It is just too easy to think that because your browser came up with a page, that the splice was flawless, when in fact it was far from it, and you had not way to tell.

Of course as tccoggs says, you see this in any data center - or office complex, or factory floor, or warehouse, or hospital, - but my point was that each and every deviation from a pure cable causes impedance mismatches, and the more you have, the less data you can expect to pass down your pipeline. While in that data center he speaks of, put a TDR on any one of those lines, and you will see every connector down the line, some better then others depending on the workmanship as well as the better manufactures products. The TDR will even show where the cable ties are, and that some cable is better then other cable in how it handles them, and bending, and hanging from sky hooks, etc. Even motion of the cable can be see in the impedance tracing.

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