PalAl2000

Hello,
This is not a solicitation of business but an honest search of your professional opinion on a possible approach to deal with the problems of managing the important documents generated during construction projects. I have managed the contractual, construction, and financial records for one of the country's largest commercial construction companies for 8 years and with talking to everyone in the business, there seems to be continuing problems with records management. I supply records to 4 legal departments across the nation and seem to do the job extremely well by my record of saving us a ton of money in litigation.
My question is, do you think my knack of finding the right records can be expanded into an internet type consulting facet to advise companies where to look for pertinent records? If given access to a particular job's archives and contacts familiar with the job, I think I could be of service to companies in minimizing litigation costs and doing it at a fraction of the cost of the construction lawyers that I've seen going through records and most of them really didn't know what the meaning behind the documents they were looking for. It would also save the time of Project Managers who are sometimes burdened with this chore.
Any insights into your experiences with your records problems would be greatly appreciated. If the opinion is that this could be a helpful service, I will soon start a website and specify procedures, costs, and services available. Thank You very much

realpurty2

Not speaking for anyone else, but I would never feel confident disclosing anything like that to an internet consultant. I know they are out there and valid businesses, but there is no real proof someone is who they claim to be online. When dealing with legalities and sensitive information, especially corporate in nature, I just don't think I could do it. The confidence factor I think would be hard to overcome.

__________________
Woman in a Man's World.

PalAl2000

I sure understand your caution. I was thinking more on the lines of advice on which documents to retrieve from a company's database. Never actually accessing a company's documents. And sugestions on how more consistent archiving procedures, document descriptions, and grouping of documents can improve retrieval efficiency and reduce retention costs. Basically a quick place to find answers to basic archiving problems and advice where to look for problem documents.
I appreciate your candid answer.

Joewho

All docs would have to be scanned into a computer, which is labor intensive, and then sent to you. Most of the action on documents is when the project is in process.

you're talking about archiving for future reference? It seems like a trade off of saving the office time of archiving/managing to scanning them so you can archive them.

Or, you can set up a room for db storage and create a shell of your system for the customers to use. This way, they have your proprietary system but you don't have the liability of being responsible for the documents. Offer a seperate consulting service that assists with telling them where to look and how to store.

Something I wonder about is, don't you need original docs for legal proceedings?

Just some thoughts.

PalAl2000

Hello Joe,
Some good thoughts you had. I was looking at approaching the consultation aspect in a different way though. You are completely correct in asserting that scanning of documents is way too labor- intensive and in all the cost proposals I’ve worked up, scanning is only feasible for the means of getting a document to personnel or offices instead of mail or shipping. Unless your system is totally electronic, it is more cost-effective to archive hardcopy the old-fashioned way. Scanning one box of documents cost four times as much as placing that box in storage for 15 years! By the way, on your question on if the courts only recognize original documents, that guideline is changing as more and more companies do things electronically. It changes by location and circumstance of course but the most common court opinion I’ve heard is that the court will recognize the manner of document that the company uses as it documents it’s business processes. So if your system is electronic they will usually hold up electronic documentation. Especially if the document is such that it cannot be altered or edited. We have always thought that is wise to keep originals of contracts.
My idea of a helpful resource was to act as a guide to find a particular document for an issue that a company might have by looking at their database of archives for the specific job. I can look at the issue and suggest which box or boxes will address it and help them in litigation matters. It would save a lot on having their personnel looking through a lot of unnecessary documents. Many of our jobs have several hundred boxes of archives and if you go in looking for a specific document without knowing where to look, that can get very labor-intensive also. It is also very expensive to have project managers or attorneys do it for you.
I would also provide any advice that a company might need in either establishing, maintaining, or repairing a records management system. In the years I’ve been doing this, I’ve learned a lot about how helpful it can be to do little things like entering descriptions of documents into a database in a consistent manner instead of whatever they might call that document on that particular day. Or in dealing with records storage vendors who will certainly take advantage of the fact that they hold a company’s records as a hostage.
Your idea of a repository for a company’s documents, while logical and convenient would not work for at least a couple reasons. One is that businesses are justifiably protective of access to their records. Secondly, if for some reason access to those records was curtailed or even irretrievably lost for some reason, it could put a company out of business. It would also take a whale of a server to hold even a few large company’s electronic documents.
My idea is simple but I believe helpful and effective. It’s just that I’ve dealt with many,many issues over the years and have gotten quite good at it. In most companies, records are a burden when the job is done and not thought about again until the storage charges hit extreme levels or a document that could save a couple million dollars cannot be found. I think I could save these problems from happening with some inexpensive and sound advice. I actually enjoy the heck out of finding documents that save people a lot of money and this might even put a few extra dollars in my pocket! I wouldn’t even quit my day-job because I enjoy it too much!

Bryan Weaver

Joe,

Just a comment. We scan thousands of documents all the time. It really isn't as time consuming as you think if you use a high speed scanner. Once scanned in I never want to go back and shuffle through old paper. Pay someone $15/hour and have them scan 10k documents isn't going to be cost prohibitive. What is cost prohibitive is making paper copies and mailing them to others.

In addition, many documents can be OCR scanned so you can do word searches to find key words. You can't do this with paper. This beats looking for those incriminating remarks strictly by hand.

Also, the courts are starting to demand documents submitted in electronic format. It isn't as widespread as one would hope, but it is starting to happen.

Just commentary, not trying to start a fight or anything.

Joewho

My outlook on this is that electronic would be the way to go, as far as record keeping and informational purposes.

If I were an attorney in litigation, I would demand original signatures. This is an area I don't know about.

I like this thread and also just want to converse a little.

AL, I don't know how you're going to do this. You'd almost have to go on site, at least to set them up for internet access. I still like the idea of a propreitary electronic system you could switch a company to. You can't just tell a company to give you access to whatever they have. It will be difficult to get a companys employees to standardize their system without being there.

PalAl2000

It is a good topic that, unfortunately, not enough people take serious enough. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, just a busy man, guy. My company takes records management very seriously and I guess I can take some credit in showing the difference of having that particular document handy when the court asks for it but because of that I pretty much live that life 24/7. I am currently working on two year-end audits for this 2 billion dollar company, a dispute over payments involving about 4 Mil from a sub working on our DFW airport job going back 5 years, subguard claims relating to having every subcontract and pay req. for several subs for several jobs for 2 divisions, implementing that electronic system you mentioned across records retention and accounting processes, hiring a new records storage vendor with a "national" agreement to give us prices we deserve, organizing the storage databases for all 4 divisions before the conversion to this record vendor, etc, etc. If that doesn't sound like a bit of a chore, we have about 140,000 cubic feet of documents in storage! I could go on a LOT further but I think you get the picture that a REAL Records manager is a valuable asset. I'm not blowing my own horn, I just don't think enough companies realize the importance. Do you own your own company and are you large enough to be going through substantial litigation? If so, you might want to find that compulsive organized fananatic that can organize every record that you produce in your business. If it doesn't come in extremely handy someday, it sure doesn't hurt anything.

Joewho

I'm a one man paint crew. I'll stick with that.

What you're doing is way over my head. Although, I did work for an accountant back in the days of spreadsheets and pencils. Keeping good records is hard enough, but lining up the info to be used for audits, court proceedings or any other cross reference is just way, way too much for my brain.

Looks like you've found your niche business.

Another thought on this, a company would almost have to be huge, and vulnerable to big losses to justify the cost. Otherwise, smaller companies just negotiate discrepencies to save money in the long run.