You Need A Special Blade For XLM

Greg Di · 04-08-2008, 06:27 PM

I installed my first 300 sf of XLM today. It installs fast especially with ConceaLocs.

The boards are very straight and slide into the clips very easily. No bowrench needed unlike earthwoods and twinfinish.

Bad news is that I ran all my boards wild over the edge. I snapped a line, went to cut and....HOLY chipping and tearout. The faces of the boards were destroyed.

I called TT's 800 # and talked to a bunch of nice people. Long story short, you need to use one of three thin-kerf 40 tooth blades they specify. In fact, the lumbyard is supposed to send you a blade WITH the deck order by default. Mine didn't.

I have to replace two end boards and TT is giving me credit for the boards and FedExing me the blades.

At least the situation was resolved quickly and to my satisfaction.

**Cole** · 04-08-2008, 06:44 PM

Great Customer Service!

Tom M · 04-08-2008, 07:02 PM

Wonder how a reversed blade would handle it. Kinda like vinyl siding.

kylemfk · 04-08-2008, 07:23 PM

[quote=Greg Di;417143]I called TT's 800 # and talked to a bunch of nice people. Long story short, you need to use one of three thin-kerf 40 tooth blades they specify. In fact, the lumbyard is supposed to send you a blade WITH the deck order by default. Mine didn't.
quote]

In regard to this, I sell TT and many similar products. I went to TT school, a class from the wholesaler (put on by the traveling TT salesman) etc etc they never said anything about shipping special blades, or even using them to my knowledge. Regardless, good to know TT made good on it, I just hate seeing the supplier made out to be the bad guy

.

John Hyatt · 04-08-2008, 08:20 PM

That is real good info!! I am a TT kinda guy but havent used that stuff yet.

Thanks Man!!! John

buildenterprise · 04-08-2008, 09:26 PM

So you need a special blade to cut this stuff-what's next, special fasteners?
Oh wait, they already thought of that......

Greg Di · 04-08-2008, 10:01 PM

Here's the deal as explained to me.

The XLM has an encapsulating hard veneer that is fused to the PVC core. Apparently, there is some XLM stock out there (the stuff I got) that has either a thicker or thinner veneer (I'm not sure if mine is thick or thin).

TT is aware of the tearout/chipping issue, so they sent out these sawblades to dealers to be given out with XLM orders. My regular TT dealer does not stock XLM due to it being new so maybe they didn't get the XLM update kits. It's not their fault.

The blades are nothing special, but they are specific models of 7-1/4" 40 tooth thin kerf blades. The initial rep I spoke to via 800 number told me to use a 40 tooth finish blade, so I ran around the corner to the hardware store and bought an Irwin 40 tooth finish blade. That made the problem a little better, but the chipping was still bad.

I called back and talked to the same guy who transferred me to three other guys who were pretty high up TT corporate guys. The head guy said "Oh...he didn't tell you to buy this specific model # blade? That Irwin you bought won't work".

So, the blade TT is sending out is a Bosch CB740AB, but he said they have tested Freud Avante and Freud Diablo and those are approved too. He was FedExing me the Bosch blades, but if I don't get the FedEx tomorrow, I will have to find one locally or buy the Freuds.

The killer for me is that this is a reskin, so the framing is not perfect, thus cutting to a snapped line is not going to work. I was going to use a router to flush trim the boards, but since they seem tempermental, I'm scared to. I actually used a jigsaw to cut a few boards so I could move ahead with posts, but it looks like crap even though I scived the jigsaw blade against the framing the whole time to keep it tight.

BuiltByMAC · 04-08-2008, 11:29 PM

I'm meeting with my TT guy tomorrow for beers and business - he said he's bringing some blades for me. It was the first I'd heard of needing special blades for TT XLM. I've done 3 decks now w/ XLM, ran all ends wild, popped line and cut. No chipping experienced. I was using a Diablo 24 tooth blade in my wormdrive. I wonder if the thin/thick stock got shipped out here and you (East Coasters) got the chippy stuff, Greg.

Thanks for the update - Glad to hear they're taking care of you...

Mac

Bone Saw · 04-08-2008, 11:56 PM

havnt experienced it either, greg, i'd say you should be ok with the router long as you use a down cut, I personally use a downcut with 1-1/4" cutting length haven't had a chip or blowout yet on anything

redwood · 04-09-2008, 01:55 AM

Bonesaw, have you used those router bits on ipe? If so, how long do they last and how fast do they cut?

Thanks

neolitic · 04-09-2008, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone Saw

havnt experienced it either, greg, i'd say you should be ok with the router long as you use a down cut, I personally use a downcut with 1-1/4" cutting length haven't had a chip or blowout yet on anything

Thanks for that
(I think.... now I'm gonna spend another $250!)
I've got up and down spirals but never
saw the ones with the trim bearings.

Bone Saw · 04-09-2008, 10:59 AM

i use it with ipe and it works well, slow and steady and a good firm grip, any other way and you'll chatter and buck so hard that you'll prolly break the bit and do some dammage to the deck. realizing that the bit is cuttting like the downward strroke of a saw, and with the framing beneith it, there will be no blow out on the bottom, just smooth niceness, additionally since it is cutting in a downward stroke in a "radial" fashion as opposed to a "planer" like fashion of a flush trim bit, there wont be any blown out shrapnel on the cuts exit from the material. In my opinion either running the ends longer than the bits diameter or just a tad past flush is ideal, in between tends to be somewhat problematic as you must apply more latteral force to the router against the bearing or it will want to bit in and get away from you. http://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/c...rimspirals.gif this is the one I have, they deal only in industrial bits and routing and cnc, the bit was about 150,
this is only for "speedy" precision, not slap it up throw it up production

John Hyatt · 04-09-2008, 06:35 PM

Sawster,the way you think I can only compaire to the way it feels to tap my Harley into third gear geting on the freeway, smooth,clean,fast,well thought out and a lot of fun. J.

Greg Di · 04-09-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuiltByMAC

I'm meeting with my TT guy tomorrow for beers and business - he said he's bringing some blades for me. It was the first I'd heard of needing special blades for TT XLM. I've done 3 decks now w/ XLM, ran all ends wild, popped line and cut. No chipping experienced. I was using a Diablo 24 tooth blade in my wormdrive. I wonder if the thin/thick stock got shipped out here and you (East Coasters) got the chippy stuff, Greg.

Thanks for the update - Glad to hear they're taking care of you...

Mac

I tried three different 24 tooth blades in my wormdrive...no dice.

FedEx didn't bring me any blades today, and I was on another job, but I was at HD and bought a Freud 60 tooth finish blade JUST IN CASE!. We shall see what Friday brings.

BTW...I tried Bonesaw's technique of not installing the posts before the decking. Laying the decking went faster than normal. But installing the posts and shimming them was harder than it should be. So 50-50 on the deal overall.

BuiltByMAC · 04-10-2008, 03:31 AM

I've got six blades now - if you need one, call me (541) 606-3440. I'll ship it overnight to you tomorrow (Thurs) - you'll owe me beers come next Deck Expo (or CT gathering)!

Mac

Greg Di · 04-10-2008, 09:54 AM

Thanks for the offer Mac.

I'll see if FedEx comes today or not.

Greg Di · 04-11-2008, 07:08 PM

I got a Bosch blade from TT.

Used it today. No problems at all. Make sure you use the right blade!

04-08-2008, 06:27 PM	#1
Greg Di View Profile Greg Di The Deck Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,928) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity The Deck Guy Trade: Outdoor Design & Construction Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 2,928	You Need A Special Blade For XLM I installed my first 300 sf of XLM today. It installs fast especially with ConceaLocs. The boards are very straight and slide into the clips very easily. No bowrench needed unlike earthwoods and twinfinish. Bad news is that I ran all my boards wild over the edge. I snapped a line, went to cut and....HOLY chipping and tearout. The faces of the boards were destroyed. I called TT's 800 # and talked to a bunch of nice people. Long story short, you need to use one of three thin-kerf 40 tooth blades they specify. In fact, the lumbyard is supposed to send you a blade WITH the deck order by default. Mine didn't. I have to replace two end boards and TT is giving me credit for the boards and FedExing me the blades. At least the situation was resolved quickly and to my satisfaction. __________________ Your source for: BergenDECKS.com ::: Decks • Porches • Railings • Pergolas in Bergen County New Jersey Remodeling and Home Improvements in Bergen County \| EPA Approved Lead-Safe Contractor Techno Metal Post ::: Residential, Commercial and Industrial Helical foundation piles Follow us on: Facebook \| Twitter \| YouTube

04-08-2008, 06:44 PM	#2
Cole View Profile Cole Mod / ArchiBuilder Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (6,611) Photos (1) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Mod / ArchiBuilder Trade: Design/Build Outdoor Living Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ArkLaTexOma Posts: 6,611	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM Great Customer Service! __________________ Tulsa's Leader in Outdoor Living Construction \| Facebook \| Tulsa Pergola Builder \| Tulsa Outdoor Kitchens

04-08-2008, 07:02 PM	#3
Tom M View Profile Tom M Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,886) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC/ Interior & Exterior Remodeling Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 1,886	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM Wonder how a reversed blade would handle it. Kinda like vinyl siding.

04-08-2008, 07:23 PM	#4
kylemfk View Profile kylemfk Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (141) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Supply Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Morris County, NJ Posts: 141	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM [quote=Greg Di;417143]I called TT's 800 # and talked to a bunch of nice people. Long story short, you need to use one of three thin-kerf 40 tooth blades they specify. In fact, the lumbyard is supposed to send you a blade WITH the deck order by default. Mine didn't. quote] In regard to this, I sell TT and many similar products. I went to TT school, a class from the wholesaler (put on by the traveling TT salesman) etc etc they never said anything about shipping special blades, or even using them to my knowledge. Regardless, good to know TT made good on it, I just hate seeing the supplier made out to be the bad guy .

04-08-2008, 08:20 PM	#5
John Hyatt View Profile John Hyatt John Hyatt Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,851) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity John Hyatt Trade: out door areas, decks,spa room additions,fire pits Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 1,851	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM That is real good info!! I am a TT kinda guy but havent used that stuff yet. Thanks Man!!! John

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04-08-2008, 09:26 PM	#6
buildenterprise View Profile buildenterprise Remodeling Professionals Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,251) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Remodeling Professionals Trade: Remodeling Contractor Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: South Jersey Shore Posts: 1,251	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM So you need a special blade to cut this stuff-what's next, special fasteners? Oh wait, they already thought of that......

04-08-2008, 10:01 PM	#7
Greg Di View Profile Greg Di The Deck Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,928) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity The Deck Guy Trade: Outdoor Design & Construction Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 2,928	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM Here's the deal as explained to me. The XLM has an encapsulating hard veneer that is fused to the PVC core. Apparently, there is some XLM stock out there (the stuff I got) that has either a thicker or thinner veneer (I'm not sure if mine is thick or thin). TT is aware of the tearout/chipping issue, so they sent out these sawblades to dealers to be given out with XLM orders. My regular TT dealer does not stock XLM due to it being new so maybe they didn't get the XLM update kits. It's not their fault. The blades are nothing special, but they are specific models of 7-1/4" 40 tooth thin kerf blades. The initial rep I spoke to via 800 number told me to use a 40 tooth finish blade, so I ran around the corner to the hardware store and bought an Irwin 40 tooth finish blade. That made the problem a little better, but the chipping was still bad. I called back and talked to the same guy who transferred me to three other guys who were pretty high up TT corporate guys. The head guy said "Oh...he didn't tell you to buy this specific model # blade? That Irwin you bought won't work". So, the blade TT is sending out is a Bosch CB740AB, but he said they have tested Freud Avante and Freud Diablo and those are approved too. He was FedExing me the Bosch blades, but if I don't get the FedEx tomorrow, I will have to find one locally or buy the Freuds. The killer for me is that this is a reskin, so the framing is not perfect, thus cutting to a snapped line is not going to work. I was going to use a router to flush trim the boards, but since they seem tempermental, I'm scared to. I actually used a jigsaw to cut a few boards so I could move ahead with posts, but it looks like crap even though I scived the jigsaw blade against the framing the whole time to keep it tight. __________________ Your source for: BergenDECKS.com ::: Decks • Porches • Railings • Pergolas in Bergen County New Jersey Remodeling and Home Improvements in Bergen County \| EPA Approved Lead-Safe Contractor Techno Metal Post ::: Residential, Commercial and Industrial Helical foundation piles Follow us on: Facebook \| Twitter \| YouTube

04-08-2008, 11:29 PM	#8
BuiltByMAC View Profile BuiltByMAC Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,019) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Construction Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,019	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM I'm meeting with my TT guy tomorrow for beers and business - he said he's bringing some blades for me. It was the first I'd heard of needing special blades for TT XLM. I've done 3 decks now w/ XLM, ran all ends wild, popped line and cut. No chipping experienced. I was using a Diablo 24 tooth blade in my wormdrive. I wonder if the thin/thick stock got shipped out here and you (East Coasters) got the chippy stuff, Greg. Thanks for the update - Glad to hear they're taking care of you... Mac

04-08-2008, 11:56 PM	#9
Bone Saw View Profile Bone Saw Charitable animal Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,509) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Charitable animal Trade: decks Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chester Co. PA Posts: 2,509	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM havnt experienced it either, greg, i'd say you should be ok with the router long as you use a down cut, I personally use a downcut with 1-1/4" cutting length haven't had a chip or blowout yet on anything __________________ Custom Decks & Carpentry LLC. Chester County Custom Decks Custom Deckbuilder Mainline Philadelphia Deck Builder Custom Decks & Carpentry on Facebook

04-09-2008, 01:55 AM	#10
redwood View Profile redwood Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,273) Photos (0) Reviews (1) Projects (0) Toolbox (7) View All Activity Pro Trade: Carpentry Contractor Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Posts: 1,273	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM Bonesaw, have you used those router bits on ipe? If so, how long do they last and how fast do they cut? Thanks __________________ Mark Los Gatos, CA www.creative-redwood-designs.com

04-09-2008, 10:59 AM	#12
Bone Saw View Profile Bone Saw Charitable animal Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,509) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Charitable animal Trade: decks Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chester Co. PA Posts: 2,509	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM i use it with ipe and it works well, slow and steady and a good firm grip, any other way and you'll chatter and buck so hard that you'll prolly break the bit and do some dammage to the deck. realizing that the bit is cuttting like the downward strroke of a saw, and with the framing beneith it, there will be no blow out on the bottom, just smooth niceness, additionally since it is cutting in a downward stroke in a "radial" fashion as opposed to a "planer" like fashion of a flush trim bit, there wont be any blown out shrapnel on the cuts exit from the material. In my opinion either running the ends longer than the bits diameter or just a tad past flush is ideal, in between tends to be somewhat problematic as you must apply more latteral force to the router against the bearing or it will want to bit in and get away from you. http://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/c...rimspirals.gif this is the one I have, they deal only in industrial bits and routing and cnc, the bit was about 150, this is only for "speedy" precision, not slap it up throw it up production __________________ Custom Decks & Carpentry LLC. Chester County Custom Decks Custom Deckbuilder Mainline Philadelphia Deck Builder Custom Decks & Carpentry on Facebook Last edited by Bone Saw; 04-09-2008 at 11:06 AM.

04-09-2008, 06:35 PM	#13
John Hyatt View Profile John Hyatt John Hyatt Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,851) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity John Hyatt Trade: out door areas, decks,spa room additions,fire pits Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 1,851	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM Sawster,the way you think I can only compaire to the way it feels to tap my Harley into third gear geting on the freeway, smooth,clean,fast,well thought out and a lot of fun. J.

04-10-2008, 03:31 AM	#15
BuiltByMAC View Profile BuiltByMAC Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,019) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Construction Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,019	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM I've got six blades now - if you need one, call me (541) 606-3440. I'll ship it overnight to you tomorrow (Thurs) - you'll owe me beers come next Deck Expo (or CT gathering)! Mac

04-10-2008, 09:54 AM	#16
Greg Di View Profile Greg Di The Deck Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,928) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity The Deck Guy Trade: Outdoor Design & Construction Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 2,928	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM Thanks for the offer Mac. I'll see if FedEx comes today or not. __________________ Your source for: BergenDECKS.com ::: Decks • Porches • Railings • Pergolas in Bergen County New Jersey Remodeling and Home Improvements in Bergen County \| EPA Approved Lead-Safe Contractor Techno Metal Post ::: Residential, Commercial and Industrial Helical foundation piles Follow us on: Facebook \| Twitter \| YouTube

04-11-2008, 07:08 PM	#17
Greg Di View Profile Greg Di The Deck Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,928) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity The Deck Guy Trade: Outdoor Design & Construction Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 2,928	Re: You Need A Special Blade For XLM I got a Bosch blade from TT. Used it today. No problems at all. Make sure you use the right blade! __________________ Your source for: BergenDECKS.com ::: Decks • Porches • Railings • Pergolas in Bergen County New Jersey Remodeling and Home Improvements in Bergen County \| EPA Approved Lead-Safe Contractor Techno Metal Post ::: Residential, Commercial and Industrial Helical foundation piles Follow us on: Facebook \| Twitter \| YouTube

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