Working With IPE

jensenconstruction

I'm bidding a 1000 sf redwood deck and the owner just called and wanted to know much to switch to IPE. I've got the material figured out but don't know how much extra labor for the IPE. A couple of guy I know told me 2X for labor plus add in an extra $300 for blades and bits. Does this sound right to you guys? I'm comfortable with my pricing for redwood and PT but I understand IPE is a lot more labor intensive and dont want to loose on this one.

Downeast

I have installed IPE a few times. You are going to have to pre drill for all your nailing,stainless steel.Its heavy stuff. Its dense so you will have more wear on your bleades then with softer material. Buy lots of drill bits. Then figure in any coating cost for it. I think it was penifin they used,mabe there are other products for it.Think of it as installing oak decking,could be a good way to look at it.

onhitch

pre drill, carbide finish blades, wax end grain, try to avoid hidden fastners. this stuff makes a fine dust when cut so you will be filthy at the end of the day. takes a nice picture, enjoy!

Mike Finley

Never needed a carbide blade and you certainly won't be going through $300 worth of blades for 1000 sq/ft, and you won't be going through tons of drill bits if you are using good quality to start with.

I have no idea what your labor cost would be, what are your thoughts on how you are going to fasten it? Plugging would be the most labor intensive. You do have to Anchor seal all the butt cuts, but it's just something that becomes a matter of habit, you set the can next to the saw, make a cut, seal the end...

What thickness of deck boards?

Downeast

Now ,now I didn't say tons of drill bits,just lots.They can snap if the get tweaked a tad while drilling.All of a half dozen at the least depending on the size nail you are using ,unless it is going to be screwed down counter sunk plugged as you mentioned.Then the bits should be thick enough to match the threads and should not be a problem.

But if you are just nailing and using those skinny stainless nails then the bits are small and will break easy.

Woodcrafter74

Downeast, are you serious about nailing Ipe? I can't imagine people spending the kind of dough necessary for Ipe and then not screwing it down. I haven't installed any Ipe decking yet, I'm just surprised by the nailing part. Is this common?

Onhitch, why no hidden fasteners. The ipedepot (and some local yards) sell their 5/4 boards pregrooved for use with the ipe clip. I would think worse case would be predrilling through half of the tounge.

http://www.ipedepot.com/ipeclip01.htm

Downeast

Yes. Only worked with it a few times and was working for a builder as an employee..Stuff was new to us at the time,and we just fastened it down with stainless nails.

Was alot of old school and many people just apply new products or new technology with old school know how..

The same guy had a deck with the trex deck.He said use the stainless nails ,face nail.I had read an article in a trade mag (TOH if you will ) that showed the different types of new decking and how they should be installed. I think trex at the time was countersunk and screwed.So I told them that and even showed the article,but he said **** that and nail it.So the nails didn't set right in the decking leaving a dimple under the head of the nail. Since I left I talked with his foreman on that job and he said that they had to go back and fix it,the customers didn't like that the nail heads were sitting up on that dimple.How they were able to take out the nails with out leaving pry marks ,I cant see it.So maybe they had to replace the decking ,but didn't get that far into the conversation ,interupted or what ever. That contractor does a lot of work for a designer and she isn't big trying new stuff either.

They were putting down a mahogany deck on one of her jobs and I suggested useing a marine adheasive that I had seen on that material instalation with just a few set nails here and there.She says no ,what if they want to lift up the deck in the future and put a different one down,then it would be a pita with the decking glued.So once again the stainless nails come out.

I have a pro cell pamphlet in front of me now and they say screws self countersinkwith no surface distortion. Just thought I would throw that in LOL.

Woodcrafter74

I'm starting a job on Tuesday with Procell, I'm going to be using Tiger Claw fastener's--they just came out with a new line just for Procell and other PVC decking. I'll let you know how it works.

Mike Finley

I can see how that would be true. Do you really use nails for decking?

Stone Mountain

IPE comes in 5/4 boards with precut grooves in the sides. Works easily, not drilling or nailing. The clips cost a bit more, but the work well, and look great. Of course, you'll have to pre drill all the railing material and skirting, but the bulk of the work is in the decking anyway, so by using the clips it makes it easier.
When I price an IPE deck, I add 30-50% to my labour costs.

__________________
Residential Deck Specialist: Vist our Website
www.fenceanddeck.ca

Downeast

At the time yes.Every deck with what ever decking was used,it was hand nailed to the face.

The IPE at the time or what we had was not T+G.Its been ten years or more that I worked with the EPI.

The last I worked with this builder was over two years ago and I was on his painting crew,as he bought a paintining company and I switched sides.I worked as a carpenter for this guy for about 6 years and two as a painter.

The last deck I helped build was that trex deck and I knew enough to say we should not nail it,and was willing to try new methods of instalation.But when the boss says thats what I want nough said ,then thats what he got. Since he had to repair that trex deck I be willing to bet he follows MFG recomendations or at least the new fastening methods.But either way what he does is not of my concern anymore.

Oh ya ,when we put down treated decking he had us use 10 penny box nails if I recall correctly.

onhitch

i don't like the plastic clips witch are common. witch is stronger the i'pe flexing or the plastic? have fun charge more. see ya

Il Fissatore

That ones called the TC-P... My Procell rep calls it the PCD-TC, but they're the same...

As for working with Ipe, its tough, and if it wants to move, its going to. If you get it pre-grooved like Stone Mountain said, then you can use TC-Gs from Tiger Claw, My buddy who's been in the business for years had His 12 year old daughter install a few courses of grooved wood with TC-G's, it took Her about 5 minutes a board, no predrilling, no cutting but for the end bits

Dezmer

Another post that i'm late to the game, and similar answers to the other ipe thread. I have had NO problems with hidden fasteners (Eb-Ty or simlar). I countersink, screw, and plug butt ends, wax all cut ends exposed or not, and glue every board. Been using ipe for almost five years now, and there is NOTHING better. I have a 1400 sq. ft deck and porch on my own home - all ipe, 5/4 x 6 on the open deck, and 5/4 x 4 T & G in the screen room. Every piece sanded, acetoned, and pre-treated with Sikkens, installed, and double coated. My last home and deck I would never have dreamed of having customers over. This deck I've had 13 potential clients come and see it, and signed contracts with 12. The thirteenth will sign soon, I am almost certain.

Il Fissatore

Dezmer did you get that last sign? And how would you like to make your decks look even prettier? *wink wink* HFS's!