Wire Balustrades

karma_carpentry

Has anyone made their own wire balustrades? I have a deck job where the HO wants to keep the view to the garden as clear as possible, and doesn't want to go with tempered glass.

I love the idea of stainless wire railings, and she does too. But I have never done them before. I feel it would not be hard to do it myself, stretching the wire from one side to the other with turnbuckles, and passing through holes in the posts in between.

There is also a company here in Massachusetts that makes them - Atlantis Rail. I am going to call them and ask about their systems and pricing, too.

But has anyone just ordered the stainless hardware and wire rope and done their own design? Anything to watch out for?

It's a 16' stretch to get the wire balustrade on this 300 SF deck.

Thanks in advance.

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firemike

One thing to check first, see if the inspector will allow them. I have had some inspectors that would not approve them because they create a 'ladder' that would allow a child to climb up and over the railing. Most would approve them if the wires were vertical, but not horizontal.

Also, the wires have to be tight enough to meet the 4" sphere rule, the amount of tension and deflection can very between inspectors too.

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-Mike-

karma_carpentry

Thanks, firemike. I didn't ask the inspector - we'll see how they react when they see it. I'm going to do it horizontally, with no kickboard.

They will be tight. I went ahead and ordered the Suncor turnbuckles/swages -- they are basically a turnbuckle and a swage and a post mount all in one piece for $17 in stainless steel. Also got the wire rope from them. I am excited to do this part of the deck.

One thing I am considering is how to make the end posts resist the sideways thrust from the tension of the wires, which is something I never consider in building a normal balustrade. I am looking forward to the challenge.

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John Hyatt

One thing I do with the rail posts,install them in the frame not bolted to the outside.We block them in with 490 adhesive and gun nails then back them up with 3'' ss bugal screws, ususally we install pt 4x4s cover them while the decking is going on then wrap them with the decking material. This makes a tough ass post. John

RobertCDF

Do you usually use the fascia boards for covering the 4x4's?

I used to use the composite fascia boards to wrap the posts. I would rip the stuff on my table saw at a 45* bv and glue and screw them onto the posts. Made them a little stronger but it took too much time. 1 time the fascia was backordered so I had to make a sleeve out of 5/4 x 6 boards. I had to plane the 4x4's down to 2 7/8" x 2 7/8" to fit in the sleeve. Those things were heavy and stout as hell when I was done.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
Colorado Custom Decks
Custom Composite Decks

lgoode

I know the Archadeck guys do this detail a lot, with the wire rope. I will see if I can find any details about how they reinforce the post against the side load. I know they generally run the wires through holes in the line posts and bring all the loads back to the corner posts. The corner posts would definitely need some extra bracing. I also think you might want to revisit the site and tighten the cables, or encourage the homeowner to do it, 6 mos. post-installation.

Generally this installation does have a flatwise 2x4 as a 'drink rail' on the top, so I would think that helps a lot with transferring the loads.

I too have heard that the ICC is trying to restrict this type of 'climbable' infill. Marty

John Hyatt

Robert with composite projects I just use one of the factory sleeves they are already made oversize for the big differance always around with the pt 4x4s.
Most of my upgrade decks are done with ipe so we rip a 3 3/4'' from a 1x6 combined with a full 1x6 to wrap the post this gives a nice detail as the 1x6 extends a strong 1/8'' on both sides. I use whats left from the rip for endgrain trim. J.

BuiltByMAC

Deck Builder magazine just came out last week - had a couple of letters from cable manufacturer's stating the codes are changing to get rid of the "horizontal ladder" wordage. Seems there's enough data now that cable rails are no more likely to pose a climbing hazard than furniture on the deck.

Fine Homebuilding (I think, either that or JLC) had an article within the last year on building your own cable rail system. I'd pull out the issue and give you the month but it's packed up in preparation of us selling our house. The article was fairly straightforward with links to manufacturer's of cable rail parts. Karma, you might look up their archives online and read that one.

Can you lock the end posts back into the house wall for support against the cable tension? Start by running all cables through the post, then install the post next to the house wall and run 5" ledgerLocks from post into house wall. Tighten up your cables and you've got your forces opposed.

Post some pics of the project when you get going on it, would ya?

Mac

Joe Wood

When I do cable railing I get all the wire and fitting parts made up at one of our local rigging shops (lot's of sailboats here in San Diego and quite a few Rigging Shops). Riggers have all sorts of different fittings you can choose from. I usually use a 1/4" threaded bolt swagged onto one end of the wire, that's how it gets tightened.

I usually always use 2x4 ipe posts for strength (attached with DeckLoks).
http://www.mtdecklok.com/application.htm

I used to use a sort of knee brace going from the top cap down to the end post to keep it from bowing under the load, like in this photo, but I've found that the 2x4 ipe post (turned flat-wise) resists bowing on it's own just fine unless you really crank down on the wire tension.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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karma_carpentry

Mac and Joe, thanks a lot.

Joe, the brace looks like it's curved - did you curve it? Nice work.

Do you ever carry the wire tension around a corner, or do you always terminate it at corners and start a new run with its own turnbuckle?

How often do you use a kick rail as opposed the the open bottom in the photo? Any thoughts about them?

I feel like most of the string tension is counteracted by the top railing and the deck rim, as long as the post is stiff enough. Sort of like a lyre.

Lately I've been building guitars in my shop, so I've been working a lot with string tension and bowing, albeit on a much smaller scale. Now I have the crazy idea to take an extra length of the wire rope and build a wire rope bass instrument with a plywood top. Just a passing crazy idea.

That's some really sharp looking benches there.

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karma_carpentry

Here's how it came out:



I was really happy with the Atlantis Deck stainless hardware.



I made some bird feeder hangers from 5/16" stainless round.

Used some mahog lattice for some of the balustrade - for privacy.

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Build on a good foundation.

John Hyatt

Way to Go Man!!! You just made a Pinto out of a Paint. Fully good with the Job,total function, a happy Wallet,Good feeling in the truck after the finall draw. John