Split Stop Screws

deep sliver

What do you guys think of those deck screws?

I think they are not right, and give them a complete thumbs down.

Before I describe the problems we are having, I would like to hear others take on them.

Thanks in advance.

BuiltByMAC

They've been mentioned in several threads - do a search on "split stop screw" and "splitstop screw" and you should find what you're looking for.

Mac

deep sliver

Did a quick search. Cannot find anything except about the problems matching the right driver tip.

The real problems;

1) You cannot back these screws out. So if you have a client that likes to pay for changes be prepared to just buy new composite decking. When you need to service a dry below deck by taking the decking off be prepared to go thru buying new boards.

2) in the hot sun the composite decking is expanding and yes, it is shearing off the stupid Splitstop screws. That silly non mushrooming ring shank will not pull the same direction as the forward threads so as the decking expands and contracts it shears off the screws right at that point. You cannot back them out once they are broken.


Now you know. There are more problems encountered too.....

I'll explain later if there is interest....

Splitstop is now on my bunk list. Going to SS only

parkers5150

use them all the time haven't had a problem yet. the one thing i will say though and this pertains to any brand of screw, if the bit slips even once on the install,stop, back it out and replace with new otherwise if you need to back it out later and youve compromised the head your gonna have probs. i think my biggest challenge is makind sure the help follows the same procedure. i cant tell you how many times i hear a bit slip then slip again, followed by,"do you have any pliers" as i said this pertains to all brands

deep sliver

Once the screw is in and say that the client wants some change, How do you go about taking those splitstops out without tearing up the surface of the decking?

BuiltByMAC

If you're looking for the best solution, you might want to look at HFS instead of top-down screwing. You'll have no more problems w/ sheared screws. From my experience, SS screws are pretty brittle. Don't know that you'll stop the shear problems by switching to SS screws. If you're going to continue top-down fastening, a better solution would be to predrill your holes before installing the screws. Less material in the hole means the board can expand/contract more before putting undue pressure on the screw.

Mac

BuiltByMAC

I'm not following your train of thought. The client's "change" is for you to pull up that board w/ all the screws intact and reuse the board somewhere else in the deck? Seems like you'd have some trouble lining up the existing screw holes when placing the board over a different part of the substructure...

The problems you're describing w/ the Split Stop, I've had w/ FastenMaster TrapEase screws. Now, I either use an HFS (90% of the time) or predrill my screw holes. The composite boards, by their very nature, are too rough on top down fastening to just run the screws in and call it good. I pulled up an entire deck once that I'd just laid 2 months prior - 35% fail rate for the screws. That was the last time I top-down screwed w/o predrilling. Hate those learning experiences!

Mac

deckman22

Mac, you're right about predrilling those composite boards. I've always done it will all composites except ameradeck cause the screw still causes a mushroom. I think because the ameradeck boards are not solid you don't get all that material coming out the top of the screw.

What I don't get is why would you have to pull up boards to service something underneath. If the drainage system needs regular servicing I don't think I'd be using it.

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Greg Di

I use SplitStops all the time. The screws are easy to get out. Stand on the board directly over the screw so the board doesn't lift. They come right out.

Personally, I think SplitStop screws are the best deck screws on the market hands down. Provided it's not 20º out, I've found them to be the only screw that doesn't mushroom in TimberTech Earthwoods without predrilling.

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deep sliver

I'm always and always have, pre drilled. Still have problems.

Dry below deck systems need access once in a blue moon I'm in Oregon, here we know what rain and pine needles can do to a job.

About reusing the board, alot of times you need access to something for the change to occur. Sometimes you cut the length to fit the same layout in another place so the screw holes end up on top of the joist you remodeled.

I do not like the splitstops you guys. Sorry.... When I build my next home for myself, again, the deck will be face screwed. I like the artistic utilitarian look of screws showing when the look of a very skilled craftsman can carefully locate each screw so they are evenly stagered, and systematically located. JMHO

BuiltByMAC

OK. I would venture a guess that you're in the minority in that. Most folks I've talked w/ prefer the look of no screws over the look of screws, no matter how straight a line they're in.
If you predrill, and you're still having extreme problems removing the screws, I'm about out of options or suggestions for you at this point. The only thing I can think of is Split stop screws have a torx head - if you're trying to remove screws that have a #20 Torx head by using a #15 Torx bit, you'll run into huge problems. Not talking down to you, just don't know what else it could be...

I myself don't use SplitStop, simply because they run 20-30% higher than FastenMaster TrapEase. I don't see where the extra cost is returned to me - both have a tendency to shear w/o predrilling. I can get most folks into a HFS for not much more than face screwing, simply because the extra cost of the fasteners is offset by the labor savings.

Mac

Greg Di

Exactly. I don't even do face screwed decks anymore. I just don't do 'em.

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deep sliver

Appreciate your response mac.

You see here in Oregon it rains so much that folks usually want the dry below decks. Then because of debris from trees, you need to get in there and clean the gutter and pans. Even though the deck acts as a filter to keep out the larger debris, it will still build eventually. I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and input.

curapa

I will second that. I will charge more to do a face screwed deck than one with a HFS. The cost difference is minimal and the labor savings are tremendous not to mention the the better looking outcome of the project.

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deckman22

Does that include wood decks or do you only do composite decks?

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BreyerConstruct

I'll face screw, but then again, we go very fast, and use screw guns, not cordless drills. So this is an option for the more base-line composite, or upgraded (instead of nails) PT decks.

Honestly, it's not preferred, but some folks have an nonadjustable budget, so we'll do it.
I'm in the mix for "rather use HFS".

BTW, I've never done the measure out & mark method for screwing. Line it up & go fast for screws...


~Matt

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s. donato

i face screw a lot of my decks mainly b/c they are mostly wood... and that is an upgrade to most fly-by-nights that just nail them in.

like matt i use corded guns and usually i put few screws in each board as my helper and i fly through laying the boards, then i send him back to finish the rest of the screwing while i work on something else. i have tried a few stand up guns and had bad results with the SS screws we use. i will most likely get a simpson gun next time around, but that is not in the budjet right now.

i have wanted to try some of the split stops but haven't had a job where i have needed them recently. i would like to get the white heads for screwing on azek trim - but i have a batch of another kind that i need to work through before i can justify the expense on those.

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John Hyatt

I like the Deep Silver way of thinking,no matter who or how the numbers come up far as how other Folks do it.

The Wallet can always be pleased both ways but a Real woodworker fastenes material in a positive way. Just the Jonn Mon's old school way of thinking.

deep sliver

Thank you for that and other responses.

Question..... You guys that are blind screwing using the little clips; after the deck is screwed off can you still get a deck board out to gain access for a dry below service and cleaning? Or do you have to take off the last face screwed board first? Thanks a big bunch of good jobs and good wether for the new year you guys.

Mike in Oregon

Greg Di

95% is synthetic right now. Most people don't want the recurring cost of staining and sealing with wood. Cedar was so damn expensive lately, it was almost less expensive to use an entry level composite.

Ipe has become less popular due to the whole "I'm killing the rainforest" stigma.

I don't do pressure treated. Period.

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