Rail Designs For People That Hate Them

Jason Whipple

More and more lately it seems I'm hearing a familiar tune with prospective clients in regards to railings. They hate them! They don't like the looks of them at all. The vertical bars give them a feeling of either prison or a play pen. Some of the decks I've looked at would have beautiful views, but with the typical and even not so typical rail systems and designs out there, it would be ruined. Does anyone have something different in their arsenal of tricks? Something new or different? I was thinking of horizontal s/s cables as one solution. Any other ideas? Time to think outside the box (or the play pen as the case may be)

Thanks

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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RobertCDF

Get a custom welder and a custom glass shop to work hand in hand. They can come up with some really cool stuff.
I have also seen where they used solid glass panels with rounded top and ground edges in between stucco columns. No top or bottom wood, composite, or metal. Just glass and stucco columns. Looked SWEET!
Cheaper alternatives would be glass balusters with wood / composite top and bottom rails.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
Colorado Custom Decks
Custom Composite Decks

mawe54180

Do any of you worry about code compliance with the glass or cable railing? I have had many people ask about them, but always talk them out of it. I have asked every sales rep that comes in my store with glass or cable railing if their stuff is code approved. Not one has said yes, many do not even know what I just asked them. All they say is that they sell their stuff all over. I have a hard time selling something that I know is not code approved. I do not know what I would do if on the news I saw that a child got hurt, because they climbed up a cable rail, and fell off a deck that I sold the material for. Or worse yet be the one who bult it. I could go on a long time about this topic, but I'll end it there.
Mark

DavidC

Mind you that I'm in NY, sometimes refered to as East California. Except we are a little more maverick than regulated.

I applied for a permit recently to buid a small deck for a customer that wanted only a top/bottom rail and an X between, nothing more. I asked the code enforcement if it would be allowed or should we do something different, suggesting lowering the deck to less than 30" elevation.

She told me that the spacing only comes ito play when you place the spindles vertically, then the max. spacing is 4", only to prevent a child from getting their head stuck. Anything else is permissable in her opinion, even a single top rail.

Good Luck
Dave

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mickeyco

SECTION R312
GUARDS
R312.1 Guards required. Porches, balconies or raised floor
surfaces located more than 30 inches (762mm) above the floor
or grade below shall have guards not less than 36 inches (914
mm) in height. Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than
30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have
guards not less than 34 inches (864 mm) in height measured
vertically from the nosing of the treads.
Porches and decks which are enclosed with insect screening
shall be provided with guards where the walking surface is lo-
cated more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade
below.

R312.2 Guard opening limitations. Required guards on open
sides of stairways, raised floor areas, balconies and porches
shall have intermediate rails or ornamental closures which do
not allow passage of a sphere 4 inches (102mm) or more in di-
ameter.

Exceptions:
1. The triangular openings formed by the riser, tread and
bottom rail of a guard at the open side of a stairway are
permitted to be of such a size that a sphere 6 inches
(152 mm) cannot pass through.

2. Openings for required guards on the sides of stair
treads shall not allow a sphere 43/8 inches (107mm) to
pass through.

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neolitic

Glass panels I've put in
(all but one, commercial)
were laminated/safety glass
like a windshield.
Pretty sure that is "code."

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Jason Whipple

The vertical cable idea actually came from a design used in a new Federal building I was a Super on. The cable was 1/4" and was spaced 4" apart, that would pass code. It's almost invisable as well.

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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mawe54180

Ask them for an ICC number. If they can produce one then it is code. Many inspectors don't enforce all the codes. I was talking to a contractor this morning about attaching a deck to a brick house. (not an actual brick house, brick venner) The inspector told him he could attach right to the brick with wedge type anchors. Everyone knows thats not code, but the inspector said its OK. Who's going to be held responsible if the deck falls?
Mark

John Hyatt

This is a subject that is of intrest. I have often thought we are in a rut with rial detail.
But what to do....There is always steel,anything can be made with steel, flowers,sunrise,lizards,cowboys and horses, trees with limbs and blooming tops, fish,cats well you get it...its over the top what could be done if the Wallet was willing to pay for it. With the right finish the upkeep would be less than an ipe decked job. Most of the time metal rail looks like a grave yard totaly stuck in the past.

Glass of many kinds are out there,the main complaint being keeping it clean when this comes up with me " thats what maids or for" and of course always the code thing...Lets just say not all things are enforced in an leval nature due to local guys or the rules being a little loose in define all together. Same with the cable rail it just looks like a jail or a com job.

The View always the View, I dont want to fall off but we dont have Kids.

How to make the View good with a safe rail detail, or how to make the rail look good by itself blending in with the View, or building the detail so the View and the rail look the same. I dont think its so much not having access to the View that bugs these Folks but what they see first all those 4'' o c posts sticking up all over.

Still Thinking......John Mon

Tom M

Look at FIBERRAIL Clear system, they make code compliant glass paneled rail in either clear or bronze.

Jason Whipple

Here's one source I found for the cable system. You can still have some freedom of design with the posts and rail, but the cables are barely visible.

Cable systems

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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redwood

Be aware that in using the cable systems, the spacing of the cable needs to be less then 4", to allow for slack.

They do look great, but I worry about some little kid climbing up horizontal systems.

Mark

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Mark
Los Gatos, CA
www.creative-redwood-designs.com

firemike

That is exactly why the inspectors don't allow them around here, might just as well put up a ladder for the kid to climb up on.

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-Mike-

silvertree

I did a deck using copper tubes. 3/4" between 4x4 posts laid horizontal. I have kids, and I think no matter what you do, there is always a risk. I'm for horizontal in spite of being a father. That said, I like the cable systems. Anything can look good depending on the design. 4" spacing, what happened to watching your kids? Are we gonna idiot proof everything?

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Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
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Cableguy123

Over the years I have installed many railings where view preservation was the greatest concern, but the most popular choice is Glass railings due to the belief that horizontal railings present code issued. When done properly they will not present code issues and will be safe.

Using Cable instead of glass has the major benefit of not having to clean the surface and losing your view to condensation.

There are many companies who provide cable Railing you may fins good information at Atlantisrail.com or Cableconnection.com.

If you want to use cable just check with your building department to insure they are using updated building codes, shop around to get planning and install advice from the companies that sell these systems and then present the homeowner with the best system possible.

Mike(VA)

Try these folks. One of many with a decent selection.

http://www.deckorators.com/

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bbudlong

I have always preferred using materials in scale to make the railing decrease in perceived size and obstruction. We use larger posts (timbertech post sleeves) with either thin custom aluminum railing (textured black) by Railcraft or DeckImages. The other rail we will use is Fortress makes 1-1/2" square rails that except their 3-1/2" glass panels. The panels are 26" (I think) so we use a third horizontal rail 4 inches above to meet height requirements. Take a look at Fortress.com under their PureView gallery.
The larger the posts, the less obtrusive the rail looks. Typically it is the rails that make the handrail look so bulky, not the balusters.

CarpentryGuy

I'm working on an estimate for a front porch that is 24" off the ground. If I understand it correctly, would you guys agree that horizontal balusters would be acceptable, provided there are no spaces larger than 4"? I like to make a craftsman-type of rail with horizontal cedar pieces. I know it's more dangerous if there were kids, but what is your interpretation of the codes? This is my first venture into handrails...

Thanks!
-Peter

silvertree

I have done horizontal and had no problem with 2 inspectors.
(I'm not a deck builder).

Having done the cable I assume horizontal is fine if no more than 3 3/4" space is between whatever you use.

But I don't know for sure.

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Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
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DavidC

Check with you code enforcement office. According to ours a single top rail is sufficient. They only get into the 4" rule when you go to spindles. On our more economical projects we will go with a horizontal at 18", another across the top of the posts and one flat on top. They all pass inspection.

Good Luck
Dave

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