Question On Stairs.

billy d

In a thread started by Wallmaxx on two sets of stairs he had to build the thread developed into sizes for treads and riser's.
So I had a question but didn't want to high jack the thread so I put my post here. I agree with all the comments made on the other thread except for the word aesthetics .
It's not by chances that the size of the tread is related to the size of the riser.I always thought it was Leonardo Da Vinci who thought up the formula
but another guy told me it was a French Architect named Blondel can't really comment on that,the only French Architect that I know of is Mansard.
Any way its worked out for the ease of climbing stairs.It goes like this 2 rises and one tread should come to 65cm (26") so with 2 risers of 17.5cm(7") the tread will be 30cm (12").
Like every thing else in this world it some times has to be tweaked a bit to work out.BTW I'm not trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs here but thought if just one guy picks that up its worth putting in.It goes without saying the stairs must be built to the code of where ever you are but it wont be far out from these sizes.
Any way this is the point I want to make when a architect draws a plan for stairs in the U.K. he will give a size for the tread say 11" this size is from toe of tread to toe of tread,he will then show a detail of the riser with a 1" over hang or in the case of concrete stairs a 1" rake back of the riser.
This 1" is to be added to the size of the tread to give you a size called "The Going" in this case 12".
I've never seen on a drawing where the measurement is given for"
"The Going" and I've seen this cause some confusion.
Is the term "The Going" used any where else in the world or is this a case of U.K. Architects just being a law unto them selves.
billy.

BTW thanks to any one reading this post to the end.

genecarp

I have never heard the term GOING, pertaining to stairs untill just now. Our architects here do not get into the specifics of stairs, they just draw a picture and leave it to me. I then call my stair guy who shows up at my job, revues the Rough opening with me, and then designs the steps to conform to our local codes. In our discussion we use words like RISE AND RUN, STEP AND TREAD, STRINGER, CLOSED OR OPEN, G

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Tom R

Never heard of the 'going'. The rise and run are figured to meet conditions and code and the overhang (usually 1" or 1 1/4") is a freebie. Therefore the tread (hence the 'going'??) size would be larger than the run size.

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ClemS

never heard of "The Going" either. there was a movie "The Shining" with Jack Nicholson awhile back though. He played a caretaker in a mansion and I believe he was after some folks with an axe.

so if there's no aesthetic value to an overhanging tread why bother wrapping the bull-nose around on an open riser set? then why bother putting a little cove moulding under the bull-nose.

i think there's plenty of aesthetics in the way stair sets are built. they are typically the focal point of the foyer.

like i said in the other thread though, patio steps are NOT stairs and IMHO don't fall under what we call here "The Seventeen Rule"

billy d

Gene thanks for the ans, all the terms you used would be understood in the U.K.

Tom your reading it right.

Clem I wasn't trying to beat on you the talk was on the sizes of the tread and the riser and I was pointing out that THIS is not aesthetic,you wont get an argument out of me about finishing a set of stairs of to the best of your ability.


billy

Railman

This is the first time I've heard of it also. From this UK wek site, it appears to be the overall run of the stairs, & not the tread size.
http://www.stairplan.com/measure.htm
Actually, I can see where it makes sense in that description. It's a bit simpler to state "going" rather than "the overall run" .
Joe

wallmaxx

When I was first taught, in Houston, TX under UBC code, it was all stairs should be made to come close to the "ideal" of 7 5/8" riser and 10" run.

The lumber we installed in those locations were locally termed kickers - for the riser board and treads for the run board.

Then in commercial, the ADA rules switched things to 6 7/8" rise by 11" run.

Every set of stairs I have built has nosing requirements...either the tread was installed to hang over the riser no more than 1 1/4" or the entire riser was sloped, as in concrete steps. It is a safety thing. The natural way a person picks up one foot after the other is in a cyclic motion.

My last deck steps are the first set that I have made that are "nose-less". They feel more like stepping from one deck to the next.

Here is a sloped riser pattern.

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Railman

Now that I've posted the above, I see that it can mean a single tread or total run. Go to the rise/run chart page & see:
http://www.stairplan.com/riseandgo.htm
Joe

wallmaxx

I just was reviewing the link above...this jumped out at me.

We are no longer allowed to build winders that come to a point at the center of the turn radius.

Joe or someone linked to a good 2006 PDF for IRC stair building a while back.

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bwalley

Florida Builidng Code which is now based on the International Building Code has a maximum height of 7" and a minimum height of 4" on risers, that is for commercial and residential.

They used to have a formula 2 risers and 1 tread had to fall between 24" to 25", which still works out with the new way the code is written.

All risers and treads have to be the same size landing to landing.

Risers over 7" tall are considered a trip hazard.

loneframer

We have been required to have a minimum tread at the inside of the angled tread for years. I believe it's in the area of 5", but not positive.

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Warren

In Ohio, we must have a tread depth of 9" minimum at 6" in from the point. This eliminates any winders at 45 degrees. Those things suck anyways. My last house had winders, and when you walked near the wall at the tight side, sometimes your foot would slip off and you would drop down 2 or 3 risers. I have seen some pretty large houses where the architect would use a winder instead of leaving room for a decent set of steps.

ClemS

we get constant upgrades from the building dept here as to how stairs and rails should be put together. even though i always conform to whatever the latest hoot is, i think there are certainly waaaay too many people with waaay to much free time on their hands to come up with this chit.
all our railings have to be 42" tall currently.
a winder set needs to be 6" at the inside corner and at least 8" a foot into the stair (this goes for split platforms and radii sets). minimum tread I believe is 9.5, maximum rise is 8.25.
Like walmaxx mentioned before we have the 17.75" "ultimate comfort rule". In reality whatever you come up with for the rise, you're almost always cutting your run to 9.5 or even a hair less. (no room around here... anywhere )
The one good thing about working in the city though is that building inspectors are under-qualified. If you're lucky you may get away with murder (8.75 riser on a 9 run and a true triple split on a 3'x3' platform)

bwalley

What Building code allows you to go up to 8.25" on a riser?

Stair building is based on body mechanics, if they are built wrong they are a trip hazard.

Warren

In Ohio we can go 8.25 max rise. With a ceiling ht of 8" 1 and a 10 " deck, this works out to about 8.25. Many of the tract home builders do this all the time. I personally am not happy with any rise above 8".

Joe Carola

New Jersey is under IRC 2006 New Jersey Edition allows 8-1/4" Riser and 9" Treads.

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ClemS

anything is a trip hazard if one of your legs is longer than the other. toilet bowls are based on body mechanics. people trip on flat ground with no risers, treads, or bullnose to contend with.

off subject, but also interesting, spiral stairs have to be a minimum of 5' in diameter, and the riser could be up to 9.5" tall.

bwalley

Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) have a maximum riser height of 7", isn't New Jersey covered by ADA?

ClemS

you aren't obligated to build your dwelling to allow every american with a disability to pass through unhindered. commercial/municipal work only.

deckman22

Residential code does not have to comply with ADA, that's only for commercial.

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