Picket Fence, Rail Mortise, Router Template

Winchester

Well,

I really wanted to have the rails of my picket fence into the posts. So, making a template for my router w/ guide. However, I noticed my router bit is not centered inside the template guide. Anyone know why and how to fix this?

You can see a picture, some test pieces and that it almost fits (need some fine-tuning) but the fact that the bit/guide are not centered is throwing me off a bit.

Anyone?

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Ryan

Winchester

Also, here is a pic of the job. We had to do the posts right away so the landscape could do the walkway and grass. I didn't want to go dig the holes in new sod.

So I can't have them too snug or I'll never get the rails in, also have to make them pretty much all the way through.

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Ryan

Tom R

Sorry, Winchester, - - maybe I'm tired and brain-dead right now, - - I'm just not getting anything out of that picture of your router, - - no matter how long I stare at it.

What kind of template??, What kind of guide??

SLSTech

I have to agree with Tom - it looks fine to me, you did account for the guide thickness & clearance with your template right?

Have you thought of just buying a mortiser?

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Tom R

Winchester, - - it looks like it's a bushing guide, - - it's just really hard to tell, because the picture is so '2-d' looking, - - but if it is off, -- just turn your router 90 degrees with each turn, allowing you to be using the same point of your guide along each edge.

I hope/think that made some sense.

Winchester

Sorry I was trying too hard to center it to show that its off and didn't go further

You can get an idea of looking at the gap NE of the bit compared to SW

It is a bushing guide so I traced out the 2x3 and added 1/8 to each side to account for bushing size.

However it isn't centered so it was messing me up. Yeah, I was hoping for a more elegant solution but that is the best idea so far.
Works good though quick and practical

I think the problem is its one of those routers tht you can change the base off.

I've got a freud 3.25 plunge that would do a better job but I don't want to take it off the table

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Ryan

neolitic

Don't know how your router works.
On mine, I loosen the base plate a tad,
bring it all the way up and let the end
of the collet snug into the guide bushing
til it centers, then tighten the base plate.
Easier to do than say.
Hope that's what you mean.

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Tom R

The only other thing I can think of (if I'm thinking of the right kind of set-up) is if you were to spin the base to a different position on the screws?? (maybe it only lines up perfectly in one of it's positions).

Another option might be to slightly enlarge the screw holes on the base, giving you some lateral adjustment on the base itself, - - or even drill three completely new holes, with better centering this time.

Tom R

OK, - - I see it now, - - I was just looking at the cutters, - - I figured if you went to the trouble of takin' the pic, - - you'd line up the slop-side for us . . .

Tom R

Also, - - the 'elegant' fix, - - is buy at least a Porter-Cable . . .

neolitic

That's why I only know how to
center it up on a Porter-Cable.

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Double-A

You can also just recut your template to remove the slop on the one side. Just be sure to line it all up the same with each cut.

Have you tried a different bushing to see if that is the problem?

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Winchester

I guess I'll be tinkering around with it tomorrow a bit to see how it all works. I've never done anything with it except change bits since I bought it. I don't know if it was centered when I bought it, but maybe it was always off or shifted on the screws over time.

Yeah yeah!

At the time I bought the thing (Hitachi) they were fairly new I think (somewhere about 5-6 years ago) and were getting some decent reviews. I "thought" it was the best bang for the buck...

I just tried adjusting the base all the way up into the collet, but still not centered

That could also work. I think rotating the router like Tom R said would give the most consistent results though. Unless of course I can just figure out how to center the darn thing (or buy another router).

Does festool make a router?

I tried a Freud bushing first and then Lee Valley (2 trips, too. Apparently the Freud nuts have different thread than Lee Valley )

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Ryan

Winchester

Do they make portable ones with adjustable templates? I've tried to look some up but all I could really find were just mortise/tenon jigs or benchtop set-ups.

Unfortunately, my posts are already set because I wanted them in before the landscaper did his stuff. Now the work needs to be done on-site.

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Ryan

sorethumbs

So the collet and router spindle are centered in the bushing but the bit is not? I'd say the only way thats possible is a bent bit shaft.

Usually when that happens you know it because its dang near impossible to insert the bit into the collet, dang dangerous too.

SLSTech

As long as you have power, benchtop ones can be mounted on a piece of plywood & clamped on your trailer, or tailgate

http://grizzly.amazonwebstore.com/Grizzly-G0645-12-HP-BenchTop-Mortising/M/B0017IDWNQ.htm

http://performancetoolcenter.com/708580.html

Cha Ching, chain mortisers http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools/kind/mortisers.html - maybe not a good option unless you do a lot of these fences

I wonder if you could use a door mortising jig?

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Gus Dering

When you spin the motor down into the base does the bit stay in the same spot or does it swirl in the bushing?

See where I'm going with that question?

If it stays in the same quadrant then I would say the base plate is jacked up.

Then I would drill out the mounting holes in the base plate and force it to center up the best I could.

Side note;
Are you planning on making the mortises loose enough to slip the rail in to one post then back it in to the other?

In the future when you can install all the parts at the same time, you may consider putting a real tenon on the rails with a shoulder so the mortise can have a small amount of play and it will not show.
You don't have that option this time though. Oh well

Winchester

No, I don't think it's a bent shaft, I just think the base doesn't line up with the collet because it's one of those removable bases that just spins off.

Yeah, the chain mortisers look nice. A little pricey for me at the moment, though

When I spin them together it's all over the place because it's loose until I tighten the clamp-thing down (see pic) I'm worried that if I took all these measures and centered the base plate, spun the thing off and put it back on again, it would be the same deal all over again. (don't quote me on that though).

I think it may just be time for a new router. For this job I think I will drill a hole through the post and use a jigsaw. (probably start it off with a chisel first, too. However, I'm worried about overcutting on the opposite side of the post.

Yes, it might take a couple of tries on the first one to get the right size hole. The spacing is about 6-1/2 feet apart and it's a cedar 2x3 so I think I may have enough flex that I don't need to make them too big, but we'll see.

Mortise + (real) tenon would be ideal and what I would prefer to do in the future. With the timing with the landscapers it just wasn't possible. He's having a party in the beginning of June and wants everything done and the sod in long enough to not get destroyed at the party.

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Ryan

Winchester

This is kind of a new venture in one of the many ways I want to try to up our craftsmanship.

So, sorry if I end up trying to pick some of your brains for ideas

Normally we'd just toenail or pocket screw the rails on something like this.

has anyone cut something straight through like this without overcutting and screwing up the opposite side? Any tricks other than to watch both sides at the same time and go really slow and pray?

Another idea, why not do the first 1/2" with a chisel and use a flush-trim router bit with the bearing at the top? huh? huh?

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Ryan

Railman

One way or another you need to center the base on the bit.

Guss suggested my first thought:
"Then I would drill out the mounting holes in the base plate and force it to center up the best I could."

It's most likely the router base that's the culprit, since everything else is just machined round. You might try some aluminum tape over one side of motor housing to get it centered. It won't take much.

Given what your trying to do, I'd be inlined to use a big 3/4" plywood template, with a cutout equal to the size of router base, plus the mortise size, minus the bit size. The 6" router base fits inside the plywood cutout...no brass insert needed.

3/4" plywood cutout example for 2" x 3" mortise:
2" dim = 2" + 6" (router base) - 3/4" (router bit), 2+6-3/4 = 7 1/4" hole
3" dim = 3" + 6" - 3/4" = 8 1/4" hole

So that's a 7 1/4 x 8 1/4 cutout.
Now just add a 1x2 edge guide to plywood, & screw template to post. The router base will basically wobble around the cutout hole. Repeat process from opposite side. I would think this would give accurate enough results for a fence.
Joe