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Painting/ Staining PT lumber on a new deck

16K views 46 replies 16 participants last post by  XJCraver 
#1 ·
I'm sure this has been covered, so forgive me, but my Google-fu is lacking this morning.....

Our local yards store all the PT lumber outside. It gets wet, and is never what I'd consider "dry enough" when we get to install it. This poses a problem for me when it comes to finishes, because I've yet to see a paint or stain that'll stick to it reliably.

What I'm doing currently, is asking my customers to wait. Generally I'll build it and then ask them to wait a minimum of 3 months for the material to "weather" a bit and dry out, and then we return and apply the finish they're after. As you can imagine, this is a giant pain in my ___, and a better way would save me and my customers a great deal of aggravation. I have neither the space nor the funds to buy a seasons' worth of material and store it in the dry myself.

What do you guys do? When you build a new deck / fence, what specific procedures and/or products do you take (prep., primer, paint/stain, how many coats, etc.) when dealing with wet PT lumber?

** Yes, I realize that using composite materials would solve this problem. If you can consistently sell the farmers around here a composite deck system, I need to ride along with you on some sales calls and take notes. :laughing: **
 
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#4 ·
Treated pine is wet cause it's treated in a water soluble solution while in the bundle. Until it gets unbundled at a lumberyard, put out on a jobsite & installed it will stay wet. Even in our drought we had last year with no rain for months the treated was still wet.

There is absolutely no reason to wait months after it installed. Usually by the time the deck is finished the wood will be dry enough to stain, at most a few days in the sun will dry it out. Try using TWP next time you stain one, it works well on treated pine, the 100 series if you can get it.

Never paint a deck, maybe railings, but certainly not the decking.

Al is too slow, John beat me to the punch, ha.
 
#5 ·
We use and reccomend ppg paints sun proof deck stain 3 different grades to choose from and does a great job on wood that is still wet.have used it for 2 years now and have never been called back because of paint of stain coming off. Just my two cents
 
#8 ·
World Dude....you are using ice age thinking. And just regurgitating a mith that it seems will not go away.

" mill glaze " is gone after a few days in the sun. A new deck is not going to have any " slime " on it. One thing you got right is the source of this mis information that being the finish suppliers not the wood suppliers. The longer you wait,x100 with pt decking,the more the product splits/cracks,shinks Thus the more finish/prep is needed.

Put a brush load of twp 100 series on a total wet pt board and try to get it off.

J
 
#12 ·
i agree, if you leave it untreated for too long it will split and crack...

we have always (and learned from the paint mnfg's, so i am kinda open to what you are saying) let it reach equilibrium over the corse of 2 or more months.

other than wet seasons, or after winter, has this not gotten us under 13% (i am in new jersey and we get there)

after sitting it is slimey from nature and needs a good washing

let me state i have been tought the ways of the powerwasher and i am not blasting it with a 10 degree tip 4 inches away, we spray some mild detergent (sometimes bleach) let it soak, scrub with deck brush and rinse. same for re-coats, mostly....
 
#13 ·
I understand that. I simply want to give my customers a product that will last and look good for a long time after I'm gone. I want to do it right, ok? So far the only way I've been able to do that is to let the lumber weather, clean it, and then apply the finish. There has to be a better way.

I think this could be / is a great discussion, as I'm sure I can't be the only one who builds these things and then struggles with finishing them acceptably.

So, again....

What should I (we) be doing, step by step, to acheive an acceptable finish on raw PT lumber?
 
#11 ·
Say you really want to get at it with a deck floor installed with pt decking.

That woud be a little silly because no matter what finish is used,or when its used,or what kind of fastener is used the stuff is going to through a fit like a 2 year old in a short time.

But say you did want to. Use an oxalic acid wash,brush it in,I use a floor machine with a red pad, rinse it off completley, let it dry,put on two coats of twp 100 series rustic.

In hmmmmm 40 days put another coat on.

Bang Bang you gave it a fighting chance.

J.
 
#15 ·
There is no equilibrium with pt lumber. There is not even a brium.

The longer you wait the more finish is required and the more damage has happened.

There are a select few that know how to use a power washer. However there is no reason to do that. It's just not needed.

The oxalic does the work for you.

J.
 
#18 ·
i'm not sure what you mean by there is no equilibrium, all wood will reach it with it's enviornment. PT comes to us in a fiber saturation state (over 22% or somewhere about) we know this because it is so god awfull heavy and spits water around the screw head.

the moisture content is higher than the enviornment its in, it gives it off, we all know this

when it gets to the point where it's stable throughout and taking on/ giving off moisture stablely, it's ready

can this be done prior to the 2 or more months i wait? maybe, i have never thought to go back and test MC prior to....

i will, on my next PT, look into your suggestions as it is more appealing to finish the job sooner
 
#19 ·
The ONLY reason to use a pressure washer on a deck is when using a high volume low pressure tip to rinse the chemicals off.

The chemicals and sometimes the help of a deck scrub brush do the work. Using high pressure to clean a deck damages the wood and takes years off the life of the deck. :no:
 
#20 ·
To answer the OP's question. There is no certain amount of time to wait before staining. It all depends on the moisture content of the wood. I've carried boards that were sopping wet and within 3 days they were below 13% moisture and moving all over the place. I've had other decks take 3 months (during winter time here) to get to where they were ready for stain.

The deck has to be cleaned before staining. Cleaned, not pressure washed. Any mill glazing must be removed and no, 3 days in the sun doesn't remove mill glazing. Perhaps sometimes it might but I just had a deck that was over a month old with mill glazing. The cleaner and a scrub brush got rid of it.
 
#26 ·
Remodel, the mill glaze disappearing comment did not come from you. Light washing(1000-1300psi) with either citralic or oxalic acid will remove it. But it has to be gone for the sealers to penetrate the wood.
We work in in the Northeast so we do not get as hot for as long as you do in GA. Takes longer for our wood to settle with moist nights and rain frequently.
 
#32 ·
With word of mouth we're already booked out through September....

I'm currently focusing on more cabinet work versus outdoor work. If I were to focus on decks and porches, I would target that type of clientele with advertising and I agree that it can be done as I've done it in the past.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I was going to stay out of this foolishness but this new guy dude and his miracle thing got me going again.

It's not a miracle, it's exposure to the Sun. Just what do you think "mill glaze" is ? Something like pottery glazing ? No. It is the smooth nature the s4s planer leaves on the lumber in contrast to rough sawed lumber.

So how smooth is it ? 80 grit, 100 grit,200 grit depends on how sharp that planer was. But lets saymmmm 100 grit. 100 grit right out of the Mill.

Here goes that lumber into the klin sometimes when it comes out of the Retort it goes back to the klin. What condition is the " mill Glaze " now ? 100 grit, 80 grit , 60 grit ? Lets just say it's still 100 grit,it's not but lets just say it is. After install it's 100 grit. Exposed to the Sun the top skin begins to open up,a lot with pt syp, Is this a Miracle ? actually it is the whole univerise is a Miracle.


But how smooth is it now laying out there flat on its back like a spiked heel hooker on a saturday night ? Not Very.

But say it is real smooth klin,treatment,weather exposure had no effect on the beloved urban mith " mill glaze " Example >>>

You Wood Working Guys how do you raise the grain on a solid glued up red oak table top? with water and sanding.Wet it down,sand,wet,sand,wet sand untill you get to 320 grit or so. At this point it's " millied Glazed " to the Max. It sucks down finish Right? ( im sorry bout those two lord gutta love larry the cable guy ) <<<

Mill Glaze is a urban Mith. Right along with waiting all that time to put finish on pt decking.

New area > why use Oxalic ? < Oxalic is a chem brighter,not a cleaner, but mixed with water it's pretty slick. It drys out or opens the top skin of the decking and puts decking that has been striped back to netural. It's effect on decking is to open up or dry up the wood so it takes finish better. It has it's effect on contact. There is no need to put it on with a power washer a roller will do the same thing with out the damage Most Folks do using that machine. Sure it can be used in the second can of a power washer but what is the point ? <

Scrubing with an oxalic mix takes the dirt " slime" ( like wtf how long do you guys leave that deck,slime ??? give me a break ) off and a garden hose washes it away. Remember the oxalic mix is pretty slick so a person scurbing with it can take a lot of the debri off.

New guy Person stand up and take notes Boy far as the facts go. I have been puting finish on,taking it off, preping it and doing it on South American lumber,Ya know the stuff everyone says will not take finish, for longer than you have been alive.

J.
 
#38 ·
I'm not sure I understand all of the posts on this. A pressure washer used correctly is a huge time saver in applying chemicals and rinsing those chemicals. High pressure is of course damaging to wood. The wood needs to dry to an acceptable moisture content before applying a finish. You need a meter to check first. It really doesn't matter how many days from build to finish. What matters is that the wood is clean, and dry. It is prepped according to the finish manufacturers specs. and is applied according to those specs.
 
#41 ·
John Hyatt said:
I was going to stay out of this foolishness but this new guy dude and his miracle thing got me going again.

It's not a miracle, it's exposure to the Sun. Just what do you think "mill glaze" is ? Something like pottery glazing ? No. It is the smooth nature the s4s planer leaves on the lumber in contrast to rough sawed lumber.

So how smooth is it ? 80 grit, 100 grit,200 grit depends on how sharp that planer was. But lets saymmmm 100 grit. 100 grit right out of the Mill.

Here goes that lumber into the klin sometimes when it comes out of the Retort it goes back to the klin. What condition is the " mill Glaze " now ? 100 grit, 80 grit , 60 grit ? Lets just say it's still 100 grit,it's not but lets just say it is. After install it's 100 grit. Exposed to the Sun the top skin begins to open up,a lot with pt syp, Is this a Miracle ? actually it is the whole univerise is a Miracle.

But how smooth is it now laying out there flat on its back like a spiked heel hooker on a saturday night ? Not Very.

But say it is real smooth klin,treatment,weather exposure had no effect on the beloved urban mith " mill glaze " Example >>>

You Wood Working Guys how do you raise the grain on a solid glued up red oak table top? with water and sanding.Wet it down,sand,wet,sand,wet sand untill you get to 320 grit or so. At this point it's " millied Glazed " to the Max. It sucks down finish Right? ( im sorry bout those two lord gutta love larry the cable guy ) <<<

Mill Glaze is a urban Mith. Right along with waiting all that time to put finish on pt decking.

New area > why use Oxalic ? < Oxalic is a chem brighter,not a cleaner, but mixed with water it's pretty slick. It drys out or opens the top skin of the decking and puts decking that has been striped back to netural. It's effect on decking is to open up or dry up the wood so it takes finish better. It has it's effect on contact. There is no need to put it on with a power washer a roller will do the same thing with out the damage Most Folks do using that machine. Sure it can be used in the second can of a power washer but what is the point ? <

Scrubing with an oxalic mix takes the dirt " slime" ( like wtf how long do you guys leave that deck,slime ??? give me a break ) off and a garden hose washes it away. Remember the oxalic mix is pretty slick so a person scurbing with it can take a lot of the debri off.

New guy Person stand up and take notes Boy far as the facts go. I have been puting finish on,taking it off, preping it and doing it on South American lumber,Ya know the stuff everyone says will not take finish, for longer than you have been alive.

J.
Great post!
 
#42 · (Edited)
Thanks Bayn !

Real nice work on the Site :thumbup:


I tried to make it as clear as possible. Taking the reasoning wood wont take finish right out of the mill to inside work would mean base/case, doors, wont take finish and they are down to 320 at least.

I still do glue up table tops.They go thru the planer after the glue scrape then I take them down in steps to 320 then I use compound/water on them. They are like glass. Watco goes on just fine.

South American lumber compaired to pt as it comes to me makes pt look like rough sawn. ( thanks Darcy ! ) Is anyone saying it wont take finish ?

Sure you can use a power washer cut down to low preasure and a wide fan with oxalic in the can but what does that do ? Low preasure means higher volume so you are forcing even more water into the wood and spraying the oxalic mix all over. Remember this is acid,oxalic acid , it will eat matal and fabric so why take the chance when it's not neecessary ? Because it saves time now that's a good one. I should mention spraying oxalic gets in the wind for the instaler and anyone else to take a big ol snort.:oops:

A lot of pt decking comes with a small amount of water seal in it from the Retort. Are you recomending droping water on it until it wont bead ? That is just plain silly. Tell you what, take that same cap rail with the little drops of water on it then right next to them put a brush load of twp on it. What happens ??? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! the twp sank into the wood like Crazy !!! Just as if it was dry as the west texas sand !!!

I wonder what happened ?? the finish outfit said just the reverse !!!


Guy's this is just plain common sense.


JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com
 
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