Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?

 
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:48 AM   #1
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Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Hi,

The lumber yard I mainly deal with sells trex, and moisture shield composite.

I am going to try to sell composite to everyone this year, and I want to use a product that I can trust.

From what I understand, trex is bad.

I did 2 small decks with moisture shield last year, they still look good



And I also was wondering about hidden fasteners, I *think* I just sold a big deck (1600 lin/ft of decking) And I am interested in knowing what you big time deck builders use

thanks
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:28 AM   #2
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


It's going to be important that you look beyond the brand name. Look at the product lines inside each brand name. I like Fiberon Horizon, and Pro-Tect, but their professional line is garbage.

I personally don't think anything that's not a cap layer composite or a PVC based board should ever be considered. If it has exposed wood grain you will have issues.

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Old 02-15-2012, 11:56 AM   #3
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


As Robert said ... look at cap stock or cap layer composites or cellar pvc decking.

We like Timber Tech XLM (PVC) and Evolutions (cap layer composite) Fiberon Horizons (cap layer composite) & Outdoor Flooring (PVC) Trex Transcends (cap layer composite) Azek (PVC)

For synthetic kit railings, I think Timber Tech Radiance rail is far and away the best on the market.

I don't think Moisture Shield makes a cap layer composite...?
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:09 PM   #4
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


I am with Robert. Composites are yesterday's news and the capstocks are the way to go. But, if that is all you can get or for some other reason you just want to go with outdated technology then MS is a good way to go.

We put in quite a few several years ago and I can honestly say that when you go back over time they look better that any other composite that I have ran across. MS supposedly 'complety' encapsulataes the wood fibers and it does seem to show. I hear now that they are even getting into 'nanotechnology', not quite sure what that really means. It does come grooved for hidden fastening as do most all synthietc materials. We still use MS sometimes for fascia and railings but go back to capstock decking.

See if you can get your hands on Fiberon Ipe or TimberTech Evolutions, if it is not too expensive in your situation. We are still not comitted to transc*ends even thought it sounds like you might get a better buy on that.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:27 PM   #5
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


How do you find the price difference between a composite like moisture shield, or a capped product. I did a tiny porch last year, and iirc, it was 10-15% more.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:36 PM   #6
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Sometimes when you factor in labor, framing and everything else involved, the % difference in the total job selling price is not so great and is easier for the HO to swallow.

We might pay around 2 to 2.50 plf for entry level composite and around
2.70 to 3 for average capstock. Call the difference .50 per lf or about 1.00 per sf and that usually does not break the bank in this part of the country.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:21 PM   #7
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Folks I do not agree.

Cap product is not the wave of the furure and quality composite boards are not by any means old news.

Caps have their own set of problems not the least of which is the cut ends. No need to go on with this.

Moisture Shield is quality product,in anyones book They were the first manmade, if your dont count trex=junk stealing everything they put out from MS, the way they cool the product down,how all the wood fibers are completly encased with the plastic melt, R&D second to none,family run outfit,great sales reps,contractor program, a board that can be installed in the water, and not bad at all $.

They did not jump on the cap untested trollie car beliving in all the hype that got manmade where it is in the first place. MS makes a quality board well worth the money.

JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com

Last edited by John Hyatt; 02-15-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:43 PM   #8
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Quote:
Originally Posted by happygreg
I hear now that they are even getting into 'nanotechnology', not quite sure what that really means.
I've heard about this nano technology too. Anyone know what they mean or are doing? All that I've heard is that the outer shell is much harder.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:02 PM   #9
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


nano technology? what does he look like mork from oork?
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:39 AM   #10
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Quote:
10/28/2011 — CHICAGO, IL – Wood-plastic composite decking manufacturer Advanced Environmental Recycling Technologies Inc. plans to introduce the industry’s first decking board that incorporates nanotechnology in the second quarter of next year.

“It will be a high-end product which will look more like wood. It will be something to compete with cellular PVC and capstock composites,” said Brent Gwatney, vice president of sales and marketing for AERT’s MoistureShield brand, which includes the high-end Vantage Collection Pro Series and the lower-priced Essential product collection.

Much of the industry is rushing to bring to market capped wood-plastic composites—which have a price premium of 4-5 times the price of wood decking. But AERT is focusing instead of using nanotechnology to create an improved WPC product.

“It’s a game changer because it coats the fibers so the decking doesn’t fade, scratch, or mar,” said Gwatney in an interview at Deck Expo in Chicago Oct. 12-14. “There is a lot we can do with nanotechnology with colors, reflective products and there is even the opportunity to harness energy and light your deck.
The rest of the article:

http://www.compositology.com/news/in...nanocomposite/
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:19 AM   #11
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


They also mention that I will better resemble real wood.

If they can get a variegated look on a composite board that would be a game changer.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:46 PM   #12
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCDF View Post
It's going to be important that you look beyond the brand name. Look at the product lines inside each brand name. I like Fiberon Horizon, and Pro-Tect, but their professional line is garbage.

I personally don't think anything that's not a cap layer composite or a PVC based board should ever be considered. If it has exposed wood grain you will have issues.
I've used AERT products for years ( manufacturers of Moisture Shield) and have had great success with them. Also to note, they are the ONLY composite that will allow submersion in water not voiding the warranty. I will say that other manufacturers have a better look to them, but as far a a composite goes they are hard to beat.

I have heard of some of the cap-stock products having issues with the cap separating from to inner stock of the deck boards. Even with it being a cap-stock product you still have exposed wood fibers that can absorb moisture.

Fiberon has an excellent looking product with a good looking railing to match and a good track record so far. Timbertech is also a good looking product, but I find it to be quite pricey, especially the railing.

Not trying to knock Roberts post, just adding my 2 cents worth.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:54 PM   #13
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


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Originally Posted by DMiller Const. View Post
I've used AERT products for years ( manufacturers of Moisture Shield) and have had great success with them. Also to note, they are the ONLY composite that will allow submersion in water not voiding the warranty. I will say that other manufacturers have a better look to them, but as far a a composite goes they are hard to beat.

I have heard of some of the cap-stock products having issues with the cap separating from to inner stock of the deck boards. Even with it being a cap-stock product you still have exposed wood fibers that can absorb moisture.

Fiberon has an excellent looking product with a good looking railing to match and a good track record so far. Timbertech is also a good looking product, but I find it to be quite pricey, especially the railing.

Not trying to knock Roberts post, just adding my 2 cents worth.
And I can see the little flecks of wood in the pictures on their website. I'm not convinced that EVERY fiber is coated.
I've met with the rep, he acted like a slimy used car salesperson and turned me off quickly with his BS. No thanks, I wasn't born yesterday, his samples faded and looked like crap in a few months like many of the others.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:59 PM   #14
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Would you remember the reps name off hand?
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:00 PM   #15
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


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Originally Posted by DMiller Const. View Post
Would you remember the reps name off hand?
No, it was a good 3-5 years ago. His card went in the trash after a few months.

Got a website? I love to see others work, feel free to add it to your signature.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:34 AM   #16
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Rob,we must live in different realities.

I have been to the plant a couple of times with very positive results.

Sales Rep Kevin Willamson is anything but slimy. Ex law inforcement with a good grasp on the product and over the top help with info and personal service. Shoot me a pm for his Cell.

The last time I was in the Springfield plant I picked up a chunk of material that did not make the cut out of a cooling tank. Looked like a little turd with the long fibers showing. I droped it in a water bucket after 8 months it still looked the same. It is now sitting out in the weather with all the rest of my test samples been there for 6 months still looks the same. This was a reject batch mind you.

The cap samples exposed to the weather are swollen up like a road kill dog. Like I said the cut ends are the weakness.

JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com

Last edited by John Hyatt; 02-21-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:59 AM   #17
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hyatt View Post
Rob,we must live in different realities.

I have been to the plant a couple of times with very positive results.

Sales Rep Kevin Willamson is anything but slimy. Ex Military with a good grasp on the product and over the top help with info and personal service. Shoot me a pm for his Cell.

The last time I was in the Springfield plant I picked up a chunk of material that did not make the cut out of a cooling tank. Looked like a little turd with the long fibers showing. I droped it in a water bucket after 8 months it still looked the same. It is now sitting out in the weather with all the rest of my test samples been there for 6 months still looks the same. This was a reject batch mind you.

The cap samples exposed to the weather are swollen up like a road kill dog. Like I said the cut ends are the weakness.

JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com
Jonmon,

We do live in different realities, I don't build underwater decks, I'm not sure why you do, but no one around here requests underwater decks, so a sample underwater 8 months is only part of the story.

I can't tell you if Kevin was the gentleman I spoke with since it was a while ago.

We live in a much different environment, the problems I have with products are not the problems you have with products. Trust me if the ends swell some on cap layer boards and that is the ONLY thing that goes wrong with them, customers will be thrilled.

I know you'll fight me all day long but I KNOW my environment, wood requires to be restained EVERY YEAR unless it is FULLY shaded. We get very little rain (and very little snow) and we have over 300 days of sun at an altitude of 7,000 ft, the UV rays are intense and very hard on anything exposed. Water is not my major issue, extreme UV is.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:11 AM   #18
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Your gunna love this Rob.

The nano nano thing that is soon going on line with MS will act as a reflector. The " fade " thing that goes on with composite is actually the wood fibers graying out. The nano changes the structure of the material to combat this.

Again your going to love this >> the MS decking will create a glow in the dark effect <<< I am just a Harley riding Okie so I dont understand everything about this process but it is real intersting.

J.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:15 AM   #19
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Removed photo and post. Pointless.

Last edited by RobertCDF; 02-22-2012 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:16 AM   #20
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Re: Is Moisture Shield A Good Composite?


Quote:
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Your gunna love this Rob.

The nano nano thing that is soon going on line with MS will act as a reflector. The " fade " thing that goes on with composite is actually the wood fibers graying out. The nano changes the structure of the material to combat this.

Again your going to love this >> the MS decking will create a glow in the dark effect <<< I am just a Harley riding Okie so I dont understand everything about this process but it is real intersting.

J.
Jon, there are all kings of things here that fade that don't have a lick of wood in them.

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