Lateral Support & Brick Veneer

Danno6102

Ok, I've been wondering this for some time now & it has come to the point where I need this info to do an estimate. I have a potential customer that has a 2nd story deck that will be up against brick veneer. I know I can not attach a ledger to this brick veneer for vertical load, so it will be free standing. My question is lateral support. They want to use the area below the deck for a hot tub in the future. The deck is only 8'-6" above grade, so lateral support members shooting through the space is an option, but not the first one. I could probably get them to live with it, however, I would rather comply with their wishes. So, is it code compliant to drill through the brick & attach into the floor system of the house for lateral support only? I wasn't sure if code would even allow this connection on brick veneer fearing some vertical load could get passed through to the brick if the deck ever sank.

Thanks,
Dan

BuiltByMAC

Don't have an answer about the brick veneer but one thing I've done to really stabilize decks against lateral sway is install the decking on a 30-45º angle to the joists. You'll need to face screw the decking instead of using a HFS to get the best connection.

8'-6" space for a 3' tall hot tub? Maybe plan for underdeck drainage system to go above the joists, not below. That would save a little headroom.

You could pour the pad for the hot tub at the same time as your footings - one trip for concrete truck and pumper would be cheaper than two. Easier digging before the structure's in place around you too...

You might need to check with your local jurisdiction regarding code compliance and brick veneer.

Mac

deckman22

I use FHA wind brace straps for that purpose, the flat straps w/pre-drilled holes in them. They go on top of the joist in an X pattern, works like a champ. Some other deck guys here use a TP 2x4 on a 45 angle under the deck, but that doesn't look as clean imo. Like Mac said tho, best to check w/local building inspector.

__________________
Deckman
www.alscustomdecks.com

Danno6102

Some good thoughts, but I'm talking about the lateral force of deck pulling away from the house as a unit.

BuiltByMAC

If you can access the interior house joists and they're running in line with your deck joists, install one of these (Simpson PHD2-SDS3) to the house joists on each end of your deck. You'll need blocking behind the joists because these hold downs come w/ 3" SDS screws.

Install two corresponding holddowns on your deck joists and tie them together w/ 5/8" carriage bolts.

Drill through the brick for the 5/8" bolt and waterproof the hole. That will keep your deck from pulling away from the house. Won't do much for lateral sway, the diagonal decking or straps (or both) will cover that movement.

Put some big ass footings on solid ground under your posts and you won't have to worry about the deck sinking.

See below for a graphic of the holddown detail -

Mac

Attached Thumbnails

 

mickeyco

The requirements for lateral bracing aren't to hard to meet, there is a bracket called the Maine Deck Bracket that will do it but you have to remove some bricks. What I have done for brick veneer is get a stamped engineer detail, don't have it done specific to the house, have it done as a standard detail for brick veneer so you can use it on several houses. The detail I have uses thick-wall spacers that go through the brick between the band joist and the ledger and uses either lag screws or through bolts, it also incorporates bracing near the top (see pic below) and that can be done quite ornately if needed. The engineer stamped detail has sufficed for the jurisdictions out here.

High Bracing


Maine Deck Bracket


Crude drawing of the engineered detail I use:

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

ecr

i do the same as mickeyco, i make my spacers out of stainless. i have not had any problems doing brick veneers this way.

deckman22

On my current job I was concerned about the pull away on a house that had rock veneer. I simply drilled holes in the ledger to line up with the mud joints then used the hammerdrill to drill thru it, then drill a hole thru the floor truss. On one wall it was a ladder truss so I nailed a 2x8 ledger board to the inside of the ladder truss then install 14" galv. thru bolts. This was made easier since it was on a new house with a unfinished basement. With a finished basement or 1st floor with S/R ceiling I think Mickeys bracket would be easier to do.

__________________
Deckman
www.alscustomdecks.com

Danno6102

That's what I was looking for! I'm not relying on it for vertical loading, so I think I might run with Mac's brackets. That's sort of the way I was leaning to begin with. Bad part is I need to rip down a 2' strip of drywall in his freshly rocked basement to attach this stuff. Oh well, better than their deck falling down.

BuiltByMAC

Depending on how good looking the garage rock job is, you could cut 14" x 14" holes on each side (between house floor joists).
Remove insulation, drill your holes, add blocking, install hold downs -
add plywood backing to your dry wall, screw DW cut-out back into place, tape and mud.

They'd be left with two mudded patches but in some garages, it doesn't matter. Then again, in some garages, patching up the drywall would be a $1,000 deal.

Be sure to post pics of the process if you end up doing this job.

Mac

Danno6102

This is in a $800,000 house & their basement is, well, not really going to be a basement. I see it being a theatre room or sometihng like that. The guys big into technology. I can mud it up so you never knew it was there once it's painted, just the pain of having to do it.

I'm pretty sure I'll get it. We seemed to mesh well & they other guys brought them straight square boring designs. I basically took their design & tweaked it a little to dress it up. Added some angles, Fascia trim, coving the corners of the rail posts, base trim, etc. Should be a sharp deck. Too bad I can't talk any of these people into anything other than pressure treated though!

BreyerConstruct

Just a different thought, have you ever offered composite @ PT prices? Maybe just for the decking, but make your PT prices the same (or close) to your base composite prices.

Just a thought... I've not done this exactly, but have shown a composite upgrade before, and sometimes that puts everything in perspective.

HTH,
~Matt

__________________
Custom Deck Builder Deck Designer Lancaster Deck Builder Berks Deck Cleaning
Breyer Construction & Landscape, LLC Facebook Page
www.BreyerConstruction.com

Stone Mountain

Here in Ontario Canada, the building code requires that anything more than 2 feet above garade be fastened directly to the rim(band) joist of the house.
If it is a second storey deck for example, with an unfinished basement, we will install 1/2" dia carriage bolts right through and put washers and nuts behind the interior band joist. code calls for 32" o/c, but we go 24". If the basement is finished, we'll use lag bolts, 10-12" long, and go right through into the band joist. Some of the new houses being built here are now using manufactured h-beam style joists. In that case, we have to put a solid 2x8 or 2x10 in behind the rim joist to give the lag of bold something to bite into.
Oddly, we are not required to flash the ledger, or put spacers in.

Approximately 90 % of all the houses in Toronto and area are brick veneer. Very few are done with siding, vinyl or otherwise.

__________________
Residential Deck Specialist: Vist our Website
www.fenceanddeck.ca