joist centers using 3/4" cedar - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Old Sawdust · 11-19-2008, 09:22 PM

I posted earlier in the general introduction area, seems this is where I should have placed my question.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Hello to each of you

I've been reading your forum for the last several hours and have enjoyed many of the exchanges.

I have been in the remodeling and repair business since the early 70's and appreciate the CRAFTSMANSHIP

seen here.

I've never seen the problem I'm up against with this new client. Don't have a clue how this deck received a CO, unless of course someone in days gone by built it after the fact.

Anyway there are 3 decks that run the length of the home and the floor joist system is PT - 2 x 8 - 16" OC & the decking is 3/4" cedar. I've looked and looked but can't find any information on what code says about joist centers for 3/4" cedar.

In speaking with the cedar salesman he tells me that code would require 12" centers. This sounds appropriate to me but I've no idea for sure. What I'm considering is placing an additional joist between each existing joist. Certainly this would give adequate support.

Problem is the decking system cannot be changed to 2 x material due to door thresholds being against the existing decking so 3/4" is my max. Even considered plowing a trough in the back side of the 2 x material but know that this is not going to accomplish much especially if the "joints" were not TIGHT. So the only option seems to be 3/4" cedar - painted. Which is what she has now.

In my 40 + years of doing this type business I've never run across this problem.

I joined this forum in hopes that someone might have an answer, and now that I've been here for a while I've come to really enjoy the camaraderie and exchanges.

Probably like the rest of you my time is limited but this seems a great place to come and listen to the conversations.

One of the answers was T&G, which sounded good but will have to check and see if I can get 1 x 6 T&G SYP then prime on both sides and paint.

If not perhaps I can make my own.

Thanks
Old Sawdust
aka Reeder

if it make a difference I'm in the Atlanta area

deckman22 · 11-20-2008, 01:22 AM

Sounds like a job to use hardwood instead of cedar. Just can't see the sense in using 3/4" cedar for decking.

redwood · 11-20-2008, 01:53 AM

As Deckman said, there are a lot of 3/4" species of hardwood that will span 16" O.C. They will probably outlast the cedar, as well.

Old Sawdust · 11-20-2008, 07:46 AM

Of these hardwoods which would you suggest and why
Garapa, Ipe, Jatoba, Sucupira, Tutajuba, Tigerwood? I've never used any of these woods but have seen Ipe, and know it is an extremely hard wood.

Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

rotarex · 11-20-2008, 08:09 AM

dude dont mean to be rude but how are you 40 years in business and now come across this problem? i would expect someone with 40+ to say, "hey is there any one who wanna take over my business because i have all daughters" and none like this kinda stuff

neolitic · 11-20-2008, 08:34 AM

Double posting is confusing,
not to mention against the rules.
It wastes everyone's time and
dilutes the information.

John Hyatt · 11-20-2008, 09:07 AM

I have used 3/4 ipe,garapa and tigerwood all three do just fine on 16'' centers as long as no overspan exists. Garapa is a really good deal right now. J.

RobertCDF · 11-20-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotarex

dude dont mean to be rude but how are you 40 years in business and now come across this problem? i would expect someone with 40+ to say, "hey is there any one who wanna take over my business because i have all daughters" and none like this kinda stuff

Oh great master who has seen all and knows all we are not worthy to have you in our presence...

Come on get a life. Its not a pricing question its a simple question.

I see something new every day as I am sure most of us do (except rotarex of course) and sometimes we just need a little info. That is what this forum was for... I thought.

Old Sawdust · 11-20-2008, 04:50 PM

Thanks John for your friendly and informative help.

Neolitc, my apologies, I was told in the general information area that I should have posted my question here, thus the reason for my explanation about having placed my post in the wrong forum. I placed this duplicate post here not knowing if any of the craftsmen dealing with this type problem would see it if left in the original place.

It was never my intent to create confusion or break any of the rules.

Thanks Robert; I would surmise by the abundance of posts on this part of the forum alone that the majority of those here have just that intention.

Rotarex, don't know how long you've been in business, but one of the primary rules of excellent customer service is courtesy. I try diligently to extend my customer service to every person I meet.

My statement is not one of revenge just an observation. However, if you've never come across anything new or different that caused you to be perplexed as to the optimum solution, or interested in another's opinion or experiences, than I'm perplexed how I should respond to your comment(s).

And yes, your comment about my daughter is quite rude .

If you're willing to make such statements to me, whom you don't even know and have never met, I suspect you have little respect for those in your own family who might be of the gentler gender.

I would hope my response will give you pause for reflection so that you might extend others greater courtesy; growing in maturity and responding to others with more grace.

I do not intend my retort as mean spirited, which your statement has the feeling of, just want you to take a little time and consider what your post actually intimates and indicates.

I would much prefer to be friends with each of you, including you, Rotarex, as well as an encouragement in answering questions that I might have some insight or knowledge about, giving and taking from each other's knowledge base, rather than being base about, and with my responses.

Respectfully

Reeder

Old Sawdust · 11-20-2008, 05:08 PM

General question;

My client is wanting the deck painted - light grey - matches her house.

Any particular thoughts or insights on the best way to paint garpa?

I'm proposing this type wood because it seems to be lighter and easier to deal with, I've never dealt with any of these hardwoods - most of my decks over the years have been cedar decking etc and PT framing.

Also is the sawdust as toxic as ipa? any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Respectfully

Reeder

John Hyatt · 11-20-2008, 08:04 PM

Aw dont give us any mind Reeder, Sometimes we are a little drunk,Sometimes a lot tired, Sometimes the Girl is in a mood, Sometimes the Kid is sick, Sometimes....well you get the picture. Theres a bunch of hard working Really Good Contractors over here. My own self included of course.

Garapa/ipe dust is not exactley toxic, just a little hard on the nose. With the given my def of toxic might be a little different then some Redwood dust has caused me the most problems in an enclosed work area. I keep a big fan going when doing shop work x 100 when cuting plugs with the S American stuff.

Like I said painting Garapa would be a crime, Most of the top end outdoor finish co make a gray/blue product including TWP. Painting a surface laying flat to the sun is a really bad idea.

So take your lumps, Its better than being called a dumb ass Okie or dence as ipe like me!!

John Mon

neolitic · 11-20-2008, 08:41 PM

If she wants it painted,
and cedar was the budget,
I still say T&G fir or TYP.
The hardwoods mentioned
are all good, but I wouldn't
spend all the extra money to
hide them.

Old Sawdust · 11-20-2008, 09:23 PM

Thanks to all of you including rotares, I appreciate each of you and perhaps my response was a little terse.

Glad to have each of you and your input.

Yes, John, of course you are right and I understand "tired" etc.

After pursing much of this portion of your excellent forum I'm in complete agreement - bunch of good, hard working, experienced solid CRAFTSMAN!!

I intend on spending more time here and listening and learning.

When one ceases to learn he begins the downward spiral of entropy and stagnation.

Thanks for letting me come and play in your sand box for the past several days / hours.

Get some rest and .............................

Neoltic, wisdom comes from much experience and learning the correct method and then more experience. Thanks

You've all been of great help. Will probably use additional floor joist and go back with cedar which she seems to want.

Have a blessed evening and thanks again to each of you

Respectfully,

Reeder

orange Garrison · 11-20-2008, 10:43 PM

I would walk away from it!2x8 should always be on 12" either interior or exterior! the cedar however adds a new problem ,as we have all experienced cedar when wet goes soft .IT JUST WON'T LAST!!! is there a way to drop the deck framing that extra 1/2 inch and use 5/4?
That is the only way I would do it and even with 5/4 the code up here is 2x8's on 12's.(snow load)I have seen that technic before and the long term is frankly dangerous.let me know how you make out!

rotarex · 11-20-2008, 11:04 PM

Hey ol man i do apologize for the comment LOL, i taught it was funny apparently you didn't and nope i didn't know u had daughters, i am the way i am because i eat, breathe, sleep construction until i get bored of it, and my recommendation is P/T if you are gonna paint it, cheap and can take 16 O.C plus it will last as long as the 2x8's, this way they can change it in the future at the same time....we cool

**BuiltByMAC** · 11-20-2008, 11:08 PM

First off, Sawdust, welcome to the forum... ct is a great resource and interesting place to hang out.

You got plenty of replies, you don't need another, hell, you had it pegged from the start. 2x8's 8" o.c. be fine for 3/4. That'd be one solid diaphragm.

Robert, nice freakin' response!! Had me laughing! Based on your responses, Sawdust, I'm lookin' forward to hearing more from you in future threads...

rotarex, starting off a sentence "dont mean to be rude" pretty much announces that you know you're about to be exactly that! And your follow-up "ol' man?" Find some f*#kin' manners...

Mac

deckman22 · 11-21-2008, 12:22 AM

If you're going to sell her a hardwood deck then there is no need to paint it. Garapa turns a nice light shade of gray & will out last anything other than ipe, no need to paint/stain ever. Good luck with it whatever she chooses.

DecksEtc · 11-21-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange Garrison

I would walk away from it!2x8 should always be on 12" either interior or exterior! the cedar however adds a new problem ,as we have all experienced cedar when wet goes soft .IT JUST WON'T LAST!!! is there a way to drop the deck framing that extra 1/2 inch and use 5/4?
That is the only way I would do it and even with 5/4 the code up here is 2x8's on 12's.(snow load)I have seen that technic before and the long term is frankly dangerous.let me know how you make out!

Sorry to thread crap but the answers seem to have been more or less given.

orange Garrison, you may want to check your facts, 2x8's are fine at 16" O.C. "up here" - at least in every permit I've ever pulled. Did you perhaps mean 2x6's?

Also, not sure what kind of cedar you're using or how it "goes soft" or what makes you think it "won't last". I recently replaced some cedar fencing that had been up for over 25 years. Personally, I've never seen cedar decking go soft.

orange Garrison · 11-21-2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DecksEtc

Sorry to thread crap but the answers seem to have been more or less given.

orange Garrison, you may want to check your facts, 2x8's are fine at 16" O.C. "up here" - at least in every permit I've ever pulled. Did you perhaps mean 2x6's?

Also, not sure what kind of cedar you're using or how it "goes soft" or what makes you think it "won't last". I recently replaced some cedar fencing that had been up for over 25 years. Personally, I've never seen cedar decking go soft.

ok fence is verticle and not being walked on , aswell is it a deck (over 18)or patio(under 18) that your speeking of . I weigh 240 and when 3/4 cedar is wet it is SOFT! that's only a 1/8 bigger than those fence boards .cut cedar wet it's stringy ! 2nd floor deck walkout 12's all the way.maybe I should hold a deck up with 4x4 too????!!

curapa · 11-21-2008, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange Garrison

ok fence is verticle and not being walked on , aswell is it a deck (over 18)or patio(under 18) that your speeking of . I weigh 240 and when 3/4 cedar is wet it is SOFT! that's only a 1/8 bigger than those fence boards .cut cedar wet it's stringy ! 2nd floor deck walkout 12's all the way.maybe I should hold a deck up with 4x4 too????!!

Maybe you should go on a diet!

J/K