here's one about waterproofing a balcony. - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Donnie631 · 08-05-2009, 02:45 PM

this is not my specialty.

My buddy had is house poorly rebuilt after a hurricane. He has a second floor balcony which is over his fully finished garage. the deck is trypical PT construction, 2x6 PT decking, BUT has been overlayed with 1/2"4x8 CDX and carpeted. He is getting some wicked leaks now which have ruined the 5/8" rock in the garage. I can easily fix the garage for him, I can repair the deck so it doesnt leak again.

Problem. I suggested a rubber membrane, properly installed of course, over the plywood, to be carpeted again. Cost is an issue and I am looking at well over $1000 for minimal membrane, .040 mil or similar. I then thought of using laticrete hydroban which I use on custom bath and shower applications which does a great job within its' parameters. Thats about $700 worth of hydroban.

Any other suggestions. The house is in the panhandle and backs up to the gulf of mexico about 75' back. currently the sealant used was aluminum roof coating under the carpet, but it has dried, and has splits. Of course the dummys never flashed the deck which is part of the problem.

Anyone use any other less expensive waterproofing barriers? Just looking for cheaper fixes, remember it has to skin over because a new carpet will be installed directly over it.

thanks in advance.

SLSTech · 08-05-2009, 03:30 PM

You may want to look into - http://www.duradek.com/

Waterproofing is never cheap, but done right it is priceless

concretemasonry · 08-05-2009, 03:33 PM

Does he have a proper design that will make sure there is drainage after it is installed? A cantilevered design will deflect the balcony up and cause drainage back into the house. Once the furniture and people are in, no matter how the level/slope was watched during construction the deflection will occur. Commonly, people try to build to build a balcony level when it is built, which is a mistake.

If it is the common enemy (leakage, mold, etc.) that comes with ledgers, does he have proper flashing and counter flashing to keep the water out? You said that it was not flashed, so you could make things worse if ALL the water was directed back to the house. Water has to have a place to go and winds near the gulf only make it more difficult.

I worked in the Gulf area as a loss verifier for 5 months after Katrina and I saw the level of construction and attention to final performance and it was a real eye-opener.

Donnie631 · 08-05-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLSTech

Waterproofing is never cheap, but done right it is priceless

my thoughts exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretemasonry

Does he have a proper design that will make sure there is drainage after it is installed? A cantilevered design will deflect the balcony up and cause drainage back into the house. Once the furniture and people are in, no matter how the level/slope was watched during construction the deflection will occur. Commonly, people try to build to build a balcony level when it is built, which is a mistake.

If it is the common enemy (leakage, mold, etc.) that comes with ledgers, does he have proper flashing and counter flashing to keep the water out? You said that it was not flashed, so you could make things worse if ALL the water was directed back to the house. Water has to have a place to go and winds near the gulf only make it more difficult.

I worked in the Gulf area as a loss verifier for 5 months after Katrina and I saw the level of construction and attention to final performance and it was a real eye-opener.

the deck is approximately 1/4" per ft downpitched for runoff, over 10' span. It looks to me that when the deck was done, it was a deck and adding the cdx and carpet were an afterthought. Unfortunately the ledger isnt flashed either. I plan on fixing the flashing problem before I waterproof. I tried to explain the benefit of a high quality and modern waterproofing system, and he is just looking at the bottom line, and im not charging much at all, as a favor.

deckman22 · 08-05-2009, 04:05 PM

Sounds like you need a new torched down roof.

Plywood & carpet on deck is a recipe for trouble.

Donnie631 · 08-05-2009, 05:53 PM

it is. I am trying to guide him. I have even tried fiberglass resin. He is talking cheap. There is no roof. the balcony joists ARE the ceiling joists in the garage. The house sits atop stilts, and as a typical stilt construction for the gulf front property, the lower area becomes parking. In this instance the lower area was scabbed together much like a pole barn and was sided straight up. So the deck is leaking into his sheetrocked garage. I am looking for a feasible solution that doesnt include a roof muck since I dont want it to leach into the carpet that will be applied. I understand the torchdown concept, but, in my opinion, it would provide a much too inconsistent finished surface for a carpet to be laid.

**loneframer** · 08-05-2009, 06:15 PM

I would only recommend two solutions. One is a fiberglass mat/resin application similar to what is used on boat hulls. Two is a polyurea/polyurethane coating very similar to a spray on bedliner.
The fiberglass mat/resin system has been in use in my area for roughly twenty years. The surface should be gel coated every few years as routine maintanance. The downside is that it is very ridgid and I have seen the underlayment expand and tear the mat, usually at the seams of the underlayment. This generally happens when the underside of the deck is not vented properly and a moisture problem results.
The polyurea/polyurethane system also needs to be coated with a topcoat with a UV inhibitor, but it remains flexible and is very hard to damage. The downside to this product is that the product is very dependant upon surface prep, and will not properly bond if there is moisture present, or if the surface is dirty/dusty.
I have seen very good results with both products and they are similar in appearance when finished. Both are available in a rainbow of colors and can have additives in the topcoats to aid in skid resistance.

paulie · 08-05-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loneframer

I would only recommend two solutions. One is a fiberglass mat/resin application similar to what is used on boat hulls. Two is a polyurea/polyurethane coating very similar to a spray on bedliner.
The fiberglass mat/resin system has been in use in my area for roughly twenty years. The surface should be gel coated every few years as routine maintanance. The downside is that it is very ridgid and I have seen the underlayment expand and tear the mat, usually at the seams of the underlayment. This generally happens when the underside of the deck is not vented properly and a moisture problem results.
The polyurea/polyurethane system also needs to be coated with a topcoat with a UV inhibitor, but it remains flexible and is very hard to damage. The downside to this product is that the product is very dependant upon surface prep, and will not properly bond if there is moisture present, or if the surface is dirty/dusty.
I have seen very good results with both products and they are similar in appearance when finished. Both are available in a rainbow of colors and can have additives in the topcoats to aid in skid resistance.

I think they are two great solutions along with the vinyl decking but this guy or his HO is sold on putting carpet back on overall which is beyond me.

Donnie631 · 08-05-2009, 06:34 PM

I have done a few fiberglass decks on the jersey shore, and this would be a great application for it. He likes his carpet for some reason, I have never been a fan of carpet for anything, let alone an environment like this. I spoke to him a bit ago and am trying to talk him into something besides roof coating. I got out of him that he needs to keep the project under $1000. I know that the price for epdm membrane is going to run over $1000 alone. The deck is 10'x60'. I think a possible solution is using laticrete hydro ban, but I need to prep the surface according to the guidelines and thats $300+ for 5gal. The deck currently has aluminum roof coating under the carpet.

**loneframer** · 08-05-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie631

I got out of him that he needs to keep the project under $1000. I know that the price for epdm membrane is going to run over $1000 alone. The deck is 10'x60'.

At a budget of $1000, I don't think you can pull the old carpet and prep the surface properly, let alone give him a finished product that will last a year. Hell at 600 sq. ft., thats $1.67 sq. ft. I personally wouldn't do that job under any circumstances. You'll be hard pressed to put down a walkable deck surface for 3 times that money. Then the carpet guy is gonna slash through your flashing with a carpet knife anyway.

deckman22 · 08-05-2009, 08:04 PM

If there was ever a job to walk away from, that's the one. Run don't walk.

1k for that job is joke.

Seriously, not trying to be hard on you, tell that guy to save up some money & call you when he has it.

redwood · 08-05-2009, 08:57 PM

A decent job cannot be done for $ 1000. Good Luck.

rjconstructs · 08-05-2009, 09:05 PM

He has you limited to a thousand dollars?...Since when does the homeowner establish the cost?
You can only give him what that thousand will buy and there aren't many options.
rj

Donnie631 · 08-05-2009, 11:18 PM

you guys are missing the point that he is a friend of mine. I am doing this for little cost to no cost to me, I just want him to spend his money to have the proper materials to do the job right. The deck is salvageable. It has aluminum roof coating on it, it has split at some of the seams, and without flashing it is leaking at the posts.

everyone on this site is so worried about making a buck, and so cocky about the things they think they know about. what ever happened to seeing a problem and coming up with a practical solution without such drama.

**loneframer** · 08-05-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie631

you guys are missing the point that he is a friend of mine. I am doing this for little cost to no cost to me, I just want him to spend his money to have the proper materials to do the job right. The deck is salvageable. It has aluminum roof coating on it, it has split at some of the seams, and without flashing it is leaking at the posts.

everyone on this site is so worried about making a buck, and so cocky about the things they think they know about. what ever happened to seeing a problem and coming up with a practical solution without such drama.

I got the point right from your original post, but why would you try the impossible at the expense of a friendship?

redwood · 08-05-2009, 11:38 PM

I got your point as well. I'm not a roofer, but I have done a few projects that required waterproof decks. None of them came anywhere near a $ 1000 and were much smaller in size.

Good Luck.

CrpntrFrk · 08-05-2009, 11:42 PM

http://www.polycoatusa.com

Awesome stuff!

RobertCDF · 08-05-2009, 11:51 PM

I did not really read or bother to comprehend exactly since these types of projects are probably 1 in 1,000 around here... But would layers of ice and water shield work?

**Double-A** · 08-06-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie631

you guys are missing the point that he is a friend of mine. I am doing this for little cost to no cost to me, I just want him to spend his money to have the proper materials to do the job right. The deck is salvageable. It has aluminum roof coating on it, it has split at some of the seams, and without flashing it is leaking at the posts.

everyone on this site is so worried about making a buck, and so cocky about the things they think they know about. what ever happened to seeing a problem and coming up with a practical solution without such drama.

Donnie, I think you're reading more into the responses than is actually there. The guys are telling you that unless you're willing to flash this thing on your nickel and your friend buy some more Cool Seal and just live with having to reseal it and repair sheet rock every year or two, that the cost of a more permanent solution in materials alone is gonna be more than your buddy's budget.

I've lived on the Gulf Coast and I think the reason your friend is so intent on carpet is that its cool on the feet even in bright sun. A PT deck is not.

That hot Texas sun is gonna beat the hell out of anything you put up there and you're going be dealing with some wicked expansion and contraction if its in direct sunlight.

Six hundred square feet of water proofing at $1.67 a square foot is not much of even a materials budget, never mind the labor.

Wish I had more to offer.

Good luck.

John Hyatt · 08-06-2009, 05:43 AM

There is one thing a good harted Craftsmen like your self could do.

Learn to put down the modified your self. The actual cost of the base sheet/modified would be with in your range same with the cost of the torch. If your bound to flash/roof this thing for free put your back into it.

JonMon