Luke's Dad

Got a question for all you fence guys! I'm getting $6000.00 worth of vinyl 6' fence installed on monday. I live in NJ and my yard is COVERED in about 3-4 inches of solid ICE and snow. The installer called me today to confirm my appointment for monday and I informed him that my entire yard is a skating rink and expressed my concern for setting posts into frozen ground. He said it would be fine and they have a core drill for the holes.

My question is... is this a standard practice and acceptable to set fence posts into frozen soil and what potential (if any) problems should I address IN WRITING if the fence should settle once the ground thaws?

Are my concerns valid or am I just being overly cautious?

Any wording to add to the contract (if needed) woud also be helpful!

Thanx!
Lance

JamesNLA

Ok, you need to be a little cautious on this topic, especially since your in an area where it freezes.

The main thing to be aware about is the hole shape. It should bell out at the bottom. So a 6 foot post (and I get that it's vynal) "should" be encased in cement 3 feet deep, but the bottom 1/3 of the hole should have a bell shape to it. Reason is when the surface freezes the earth can actually push the post up and out (although I have never heard of this happening).

I think this is code for fence posts, but I really don't know for sure.

I wonder if the cement will cure in freezing temps.....maybe you guys out there in the tundra have different curing agents in the cement...

EDIT: The earth below maybe 12 to 24 inches may be frozen, below that it's not frozen

bcf

Over here near Philly the ground isn't frozen more than a few inches. There are concrete additives that can be used in the winter( I use anti-hydro) to cure the concrete before it is frozen. If the concrete is poured the same day the holes are dug, then the ground should still be warm enough. Even sitting overnight right below freezing shoul dbe ok.

The holes most likely will not be belled at the bottom, at least not much.I've never seen a post heave, but have seen them sink. And 3 feet of concrete is way more than enough for the fence.( I use around 200 lbs and that covers a little under 2 feet of a 12' Diameter hole)

__________________
Matt Ehrenzeller-General Manager
Eclipse Fencing, Inc.

Woodcrafter74

Dad of Luke,
Just curious if you got your fence today? It was an ugly day to be working outside. I was working about 20 miles north of you.

I'm with BCF in betting that they didn't bell the bottom of the holes, but then again, not really necessary. We don't have freezes around here that would cause frost-jacking

Again, hope it all went well.

Luke's Dad

Well, got 1/2 the fence yesterday and they'll be back today to finish up. The fence looks great! BFC you were right! The ground is only frozen a couple of inches and they are using a small jackhammer to get to the soft stuff, then it's the 'ol post hole digger. I'll try and post some pics when it's done!

Lance