These are work-in-progress pictures of a deck that I just received from a customer, with some questions about how to install the decking. But I'm thinking I should tell them the frame needs a lot more work before the decking goes on - comments?
Marty
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Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 10,143
I don't know what their code is
concerning the post to beam connections.
Others may know if there is hardware
to add to the bolted connections.
I would dog the bottom corners
of the beams as well, and here is
a detail you can send along....
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(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
That's some odd framing, that most likely has an embarasing explanation.
The bolts on the post/beam.. those look to be drilled out & recessed? that's a no-no.
I don't understand the extra blocking, and the lack of usable blocking where the deck levels come together.
Oh, and that one beam shouldn't be in the house's overdig area, unless they went down to the foundation's footing...
Neo's got an excellent ledger connection detail pic.
~Matt
That wouldn't pass any inspection here. No flashing, sandwhich style beams won't pass, post too far about for double 2x8's, no post base on 4x4's, concrete should be above grade.
Admittedly, how decks are built here is not the same as their area, but I doubt it would pass there either.
The sad part is the materials are good. just poor execution. The sandwich detail seems to be less common these days, I always see the beams sittingon top of the post now with a Simpson or USP 4x by Double 2X tie on them now. In all honestly I can't say I have ever seen good sandwich beam constuction fail, but I guess the fact is that your relying solely on the carriage bolts to hold the load.
A guy I learned from was adamant about "sandwich" posts and beams. Always told me not to rely on hardware to support a deck, notch out the post and you can sleep at night he'd say. But a thread awhile ago, (I think it was a pergola) was complaining about rot from notching out a beam. The water would just sit there, end grain would soak it up and rot it out. I can see the point, after all it's exposed end grain. I know there's two 2 x 10's or whatever there but as we all know wood shrinks.
If I had a deck job come up I'm sure I'd make a "pocket" like always but I've been waiting for this to come up. I don't mean to steel this thread but I'm kinda uncertain now. www.phbconstruction.com
I don't see anything wrong structurally....looks like they pulled off the siding where the ledger is attatched to the house (flash it), and there's footings and post/beam where it's not.
I've seen worse....besides knocking the corners off the 2x10 beams and bolting, what's the prob?
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Probly not exactly how I would of built it, but around here that deck would almost pass no problem. The only thing the inspector would want to see is somekind of flashing on top of the ledger. Hurricane ties on the joists to the beam. And 2x6 blocks bolted verticly under each side of the beam. And that the posts are sitting on 12" of concrete.
Edit I wonder what kind of rim joist and joists the house has? It looks fairly new. I know all the new ones around here are TJI's with an osb rim , and inside blocking and all thread or carrige bolts are required.
Dave
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Last edited by dkillianjr; 08-17-2009 at 05:32 PM.
Valid points in all of the above posts....although it looks like 6x6 with 2x10s to me also. 1/2" through bolts adn it should pass inspection. I do think that I would add some bridging in the joists, but just me
He should pay particular attention to his corners when flashing. Vinyl siding is designed to leak and dump down the corners and J channels. MAC uses a ton of flashing tape...I use Ice and Water and run up the wall 6 to 8" before flashing with aluminum.
One pic also looks like he might have concrete around his post?? It's over 30" so it should be an inspected deck....he should be able to call his inspector and ask for a framing inspection if he has concerns.
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Last edited by PA woodbutcher; 08-17-2009 at 05:28 PM.
I like the wasted hangers at the cantilever on the house.
@ Breyer: The beam close to the house (in the overdig) is required because the house cantilever there. You cannot hang a deck load off a cant. They do need to go down to undisturbed soil for sure.
As far as the entire project goes... The beams should be on top the posts with hardware not bolted to the side. The "blocking" some have refered to is likely a joist seam over the beam and the overlapped 2-3'. This needs to be roll blocked first. The posts should not go into the piers it should be poured full above grade with appropriate hardware. H2.5 tie downs at every joist to every beam (hangers on the outside rim are a complete waste).
I found out that the inspector failed the sandwich beam, not 100% sure what the proposed remedy was but 'both beams have to be on the same side of the post'. Did not fail for no flashing! But HO has been supplied Neo's very helpful graphic and it will be taken care of. Also, this deck may get Rain Escape, which gets butyl-taped to the housewrap above the ledger, effectively solving the problem I believe.
Marty
I found out that the inspector failed the sandwich beam, not 100% sure what the proposed remedy was but 'both beams have to be on the same side of the post'. Did not fail for no flashing! But HO has been supplied Neo's very helpful graphic and it will be taken care of. Also, this deck may get Rain Escape, which gets butyl-taped to the housewrap above the ledger, effectively solving the problem I believe.
Marty
You're a good rep Marty, babysitting your customers job like you are.
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Ya know Guys,I looked that thing over a couple of times,really I dont see much wrong with it, If fact I think that aproach with the lumber bolted on both sides has a lot of things going for it for a lot of reasons. Well thought out and it looks pretty clean framing.
The lack of flashing of course and no telling how the conection to the footing is. Dammm the inspector anyway. The fix could be installed in a lot of ways and I dont really know how the quality of the bolts were + all that but the idea is good in my eyes. JonMon
I like the wasted hangers at the cantilever on the house.
@ Breyer: The beam close to the house (in the overdig) is required because the house cantilever there. You cannot hang a deck load off a cant. They do need to go down to undisturbed soil for sure.
As far as the entire project goes... The beams should be on top the posts with hardware not bolted to the side. The "blocking" some have refered to is likely a joist seam over the beam and the overlapped 2-3'. This needs to be roll blocked first. The posts should not go into the piers it should be poured full above grade with appropriate hardware. H2.5 tie downs at every joist to every beam (hangers on the outside rim are a complete waste).
Though there is great debate.... as long as our footer depths are 42" here, we are not required to pour above grade (unless otherwise stated in the drawing. We've also built decks with sandwiched beams that have never failed inspection.
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Last edited by WNYcarpenter; 08-19-2009 at 06:49 PM.
I just pulled it out of another thread. 
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