Deck Screws Vs Joist Nails

basswood

The 16" Makita Saw is quite the tool. It certainly commands respect.

Timber framers have all the coolest tools.

Sometime soon, I am visiting a timber frame a friend put up here recently. Looking forward to seeing it.

Later,

Bass

reveivl

Wanna take some pictures? I'll swap ya!

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basswood

Single digit temps this morning... wind chill -6*F.

Dressing up like an Eskimo.

subybohn

You guys do some defiantly quality craftsmanship. My hat is off to those who still do things the "old timer’s ways" - with or without today's tools - They must have known what they were doing, for their true craftsmanship has stood the test of time...

I'd like to see you start a discussion sharing these old ways -- just as you did in this discussion....that was impressive to read.

But sometimes you don't have the space under the joists/header board for a ledger board -- and a double header to nail the joists off of (using 10dx3" into the headers isn't always feasible in smaller applications.

What it neat, is all the options -- there isn't just one way of doing solutions.

And the more options, the more possibilities.

BUT not everyone is equip or has the skill it takes to design and build large decks or special builds. And not everyone can afford you talents.

Volunteers do the best they can....when the skilled craft are to busy trying to get their own work done...and volunteers usually only tackle the "simple" small deck designs.

So - this is for those truly seeking information and not trying to change a person's mastered trade.

Attached Files

USP Opt Nails for Face Mount Hangers.pdf (92.6 KB, 114 views)

jarhead0531

Christ almighty you just wouldn't give up until you found something that said it was okay to use screws. Then use screws already, just don't do it on any deck I'll ever be on, and quit asking what the right fastner to use is, then don't listen.

DecksEtc

EXACTLY!

subybohn, go ahead and use whatever fastener you want for crying out loud. Use interior flooring screws for all I/we care. You live far enough away from me that there is virtually no chance in hell I'll ever step foot on one of your designs/builds. As you can see, or maybe you can't, we've given you many, many reasons why we don't use screws for joist hangers. Afterall, what do a bunch of dumb contractors, most of which have probably been building longer than you've been alive, know anyway.

Just do us all a favour and stop posting your "proof" because it's going to fall on deaf ears. You're not going to convince any reputable deck contractor that screws are "better" than the proper nails for joist hangers.

Give it a rest already, would you?

P.S. How many decks have you built where a permit was pulled?

melkahn3669

Simpson makes all of the appropriate nails for this. They make a 10D common just ask your supplier to order the 3" nail and you will be all set.
Model number is 10D5HDG

loneframer

In theory that is true, but the Teco nails we get have a number stamped on their heads,8,10,12 which refers to the relationship of the diameter of the nails.

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stuperintendent

it sounds like to me that you have a bunch of 3" screws youre trying to use up but if you follow the simpson book you shouldnt have any inspection problems just use the proper fastener, its all in black and white. if they wont accept it submit hanger/fastener to the architect for the structural engineer for review or he can approve a different fastener. as stated in other posts depending on where youre located besides live and dead loads being imposed on the structure you also have to consider the wind load uplift. In my area so. fla. its a 150 mph wind zone which adds another dimension to the mix. Lab tests have shown that the fastener will fail before the hanger, thats why theres so much emphasis on the shear strength of the fasteners. so in the design of a deck or any other structure you have to consider the live load of people that the proposed structure will accomodate, as well as furniture, equipment, etc. ie. dead loads equating into a pounds per square foot (psf ) number the structural engineer uses to design the structure.hope that helps.

Winchester

Drive a 3" screw in half way and smack it from the side with a hammer. Usually they snap. Do the same with a nail. Do this and then answer which one do you think is gonna resist shear force better?

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Chris G

Exactamundo!

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whooley

If you are worried about the hanger nails pulling out then you didn't build anything right from the start. Also a screws strength is compromised by it's installation. Too tight and you have issues, too loose and you have other issues. The density of the wood and length of the screw can effect the screws strength. The heat from installation can change the temper of the screw. A nail does not have many of these issues to contend with.
I'm with the guy that said a structure should be built in a manner that eliminates fasteners from supporting the structure.

neolitic

So, you don't believe in
joist hangers?

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Tinstaafl

Yes Virginia, they do exist.

But I've seen way too many of them (outdoors) rusted through to put a lot of faith in them long-term. Maybe if everything was SS, but that would be more expensive than most are willing to pay.

OTOH, truly eliminating all fasteners from doing any support at all would probably cost just as much.

neolitic

Just sounded like the guy
wasn't taking in to account
that the hangers depend on
the fasteners too.
Maybe I misunderstood.

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Tinstaafl

I think so, but understandable. That last line does kind of jump out at you.

jhark123

Wow. five pages and no resolution due to the OP's stupidity. Since you are obviously a professional contractor (), this is what you need:

http://www.amazon.com/Paslode-F250S-...632556&sr=1-17

plus this:

http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-112X148H...5632556&sr=1-9

equals a system 1000 times faster than screws

BuiltByMAC

1 1/2" nails are fine for nailing the hanger to the ledger but you'll also need the 2 1/2" gun nails for the angled toenails through the joist end.

Mac

cnydave

I am in the process of R&R 300+ 2 story balconies at two apartment complexes.

All are 12 x 4ish, original decks used cantilevers so you can imagine the rot, anyway...back to the screw vs nail joist hanger issue; many of these decks were "repaired" , some had joist hangers installed with deck screws.

On demo, the hangers with deck screws offered much less resistance than nailed hangers.

We use screws in most situations, but never in shear situations...I use sds lags screws on our dtt2z ties, but this is lateral.

I've bent nails into some pretty cool shapes trying to remove them, screws, just use the head of the estwing.

Winchester

The 1.5" nails I use have a 10 stamped on the head as well.

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