Can I Borrow Your Experience?

Timuhler

Guys,

We are trying to stay busy until something else comes along. We are primarily spec and custom home builders, but you guys might know me from JLC and other forums as a framer and sider.

Things have gotten so slow that its just my brother and me doing the work. We've got a reskin to do for our web guy. The deck is in good shape, but he wants new decking. 2x6 cedar is there and will be replaced with the same. He actually grew up in this house.

Edit:

John Hyatt thought my post/thread was a joke. I hope I wasn't offensive with my post. That wasn't my intention. I was just looking for some help.

I have some questions on figuring materials. I have a little experience on this, but not too much.

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John Hyatt

You have got to be Kidding!!!!!!!!!!!! J.

Timuhler

I'm not kidding. I'm sorry if I offended you. I'm just looking for some help. If you think I should edit/delete the post, please tell me why and I will.

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DavidC

Hello Tim,

I haven't posted much on JLC lately but you may know me there as Carpenter. I'll vouch for you not being a HO looking for a DIY project.

Are you looking for materials needed to reskin that deck?


Good Luck
Dave

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Tom R

Just for the record, everyone, Tim is completely legit. He has (at least) several excellent articles in JLC on framing techniques and such. Maybe even Fine Homebuilding too??

I forget which to be sure, - - I just remember reading them on at least several different occasions.

He's with Pioneer Builders (family owned??) or something like that (how 'bout that memory of mine, Tim??)

Anyway,Tim, - - hopefully, some of the deck guys will help you out here, - - their advice would be best, - - but if not, - - feel free to PM me and I'll be glad to help you out . . .

Timuhler

Dave,

Thanks for posting.

I'm looking for quite a bit, I'll admit right up front. I'm uneasy about figuring materials and bidding hours because I'm not that experienced at this.

Give me a framing job any day.

I'm looking for tips for figuring material. I can get up to 20' lengths of 2x6 KD cedar.

How would you figure a materials list?
I was figuring 16's and 12's and not putting joints closer than 32". The drawing is off, because the joists are at 16", and I drew 24". I've got a Grabber Superdrive that I use to screw down subfloor and I can use that to fasten the decking with 3" screws

I was thinking that it would take 15-20 manhours including tear off. But I don't know if that is too low or way to high, I'm just estimating.

I guess, I'm just hoping for any words of insight. We are just trying to stay busy for a bit. We are working with a guy from California that has a lot in a golf course development where we built this house and he wants us to build a Victorian, but he is a little slow at picking a plan. We also may build a smaller spec or two since anything under 250k is selling around here. But we don't know if we want to.

Long post I know

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nj handyman

check out tim's web site. he does things i can only dream about doing!

Jason Whipple

You'll need about 720 lf. That includes about 20% for waste. Cedar can have some checked and very dark colored boards that you may not want to use so I go w/20% for waste, but send the unused stuff back.

Use 2 1/4" S/S screws.

(No faux zone at JLC)

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Chris G

Trapped moisture is what kills decks. Especially trapped moisture on end grain. So say you have a joint sharing a joist, well, that joint has no air circulating under the most vulnerable parts, the end grain, not to say you can't do it this way and most people do, you just won't get as long as life before rot sets in. Also when you share a 1 1/2" joist, you are screwing awfully close to your ends. The wood will invariably split after a few wet/dry cycles. If you must screw that close the end, pre-drill.

So, you could add some blocking and set up a new joist a couple of inches away from on of the old ones. Now you have 1' of air underneath your joint, and you are clear of screwing near the end.

Or take this one step further and install a seam board. Someone, (MAC) will hopefully be along shortly to post some pics. It will make your clients say "SHAM WOW" everytime. You do as above, (more or less) but you create a frame for one board to run perpendicular to all the other, precisely at the midpoint of the deck. And now there are no ugly butt joints, and you don't have to hunt for 30 foot pieces of deck board.

One other option is to run all your boards at 45 degrees. Not quite the same SHAM WOW effect, but still a pretty fancy pancy solution to needing long boards.

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Jason Whipple

Seam Boards....

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Patrick

Jason, Did you ever:

A) Get to finish that deck

B) Get paid for it

C) Avoid a frivolous law suit?

I never caught the ending to that horrible story

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Originally Posted by Celtic
Like I said...I'm sure you are very good at what you do ~ whatever that is and where ever it happens.

Timuhler

Thanks guys. I just got off the phone with Greg Di and a seam board is his recommendation.

Any thoughts on 2x6 vs 5/4 x 6? I know we'd save money going to 5/4 and we'll see what preference the homeowner has, but pros/cons?

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Jason Whipple

End of the story was my layer asked if I really want to spend time chasing bad money or concentrate on whats good.

Sorry for the drift

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Jason Whipple

5/4" is fine with 16" o.c. framing.

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Chris G

The 5/4 comes with a more beveled edge, which helps to visually smooth out discrepencies between board heights. 2 x is good for steps though.

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mhillc

Her in jersey 5/4 cost more then 2x6. so check your prices

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Windwash

Hey Tim,
I've read alot of your articles and posts on JLC and wish I had been able to learn the hand framing of roofs as you have.

You didn't say how high off the ground this is or how far you have to hump materials but I'll take stab at it anyway.

Demo:
Assuming that the joists are in good enough shape on the top to re-deck means the old deck boards aren't going to pop right off (2 guys- 4 hrs) and a couple of hours to carry debris to the front yard? to the dumpster plus dumpster cost.

Decking:
How long will it take somebody to hump material to the deck site? (x Hours)

I have never used a grabber screw gun but would be bidding 3" stainless screws (not trimheads for the 2x) run in with the makita impact (no predrilling) at 2guys/2days. If you can get SS screws for your screw gun or your customer doesn't mind the galvenized staining in a few years you might be able to knock a day off the labor with the gun.

Without any railing or stair work, i would probably be bidding this job at 2guys/3days minimum............I know you guys scoot right along on new construction but this is remodeling.

Labor + Material+ Dumpster/Disposal+O&P= cost

Timuhler

Perfect. This is what I was looking for. I was thinking that we could do it in 20 hours, but that is wishful thinking.

For us one plus is that we can get the dump truck into the backyard, so that saves a step. Another is that we can unload the lumber truck close too.

Greg suggested stainless, so that is the route we'll go. The homeowner inherited the house from his parents, so he has lived there all his life and has two little girls. It is a really nice established place, so I hope we get the job.

Oh and this is a second floor deck. The home is a split level.

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neolitic

I'll second 3" #8s for 2X,
2¼ trim heads for 5/4.
Only need 2X if you go 45º.



I call it a breaker board,
seams are for tailors.

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Greg Di

Hey...the legend calls me...I pick up the phone!

It seems as though everyone reiterated what I told him on the phone.

It's funny how great minds think alike.

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