Beam Splicing Advice

 
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:28 PM   #1
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Beam Splicing Advice


It's been a long time since we posted in this forum and I am hoping for some advice on a deck beam splicing question.

The background:

We are renovating a lake front home in Alabama (Smith Lake). There was an existing deck to the first floor that covered a lower concrete patio. Deck wraps around both corners of the house and was built with double 2x10 beams extending out to posts with 2x8 joists between the beams running parallel with the rim joist.

The existing decking and framing were structurally reasonably sound but just old and ready to be retired. The 6x6 posts are all in good shape and sitting on a 5-7" thick concrete slab on good footing.

I am going to rebuild with a more typical layout of joists running out perpendicular to the house rim and resting on a cantilever beam to a total span of 10' The posts and therefore beam will be 8' from the house all the way around and I'll use 2x12 joists on 16" spacing for a total length of 10'. The 2x12 is for extra room in the joist bay for some waterproofing. There is lots of headroom below so plenty of room for the extra framing.

I was planning a double 2x12 beam running post-to-post to support the joists. The posts on the front of the house are 8' apart and I'll use 16' 2x12s to offset the splices on each beam.

The posts down one side are 10' apart. I can either break every beam at every post (use cleats on each side, bolts, etc etc), try and find 20' 2x12, or move some posts around a bit. Since the posts are on a good slab, moving them isn't the end of the world, but I'd like to avoid it if possible.



This is a long-winded way of asking what the best solution would be to build a beam with 10' post-to-post spacing??

Thanks!!

Shawn
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:34 PM   #2
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


To be honest, it's hard for me to clearly picture what you have and need by what you wrote. I believe you need a beam that is 20' long that will be supported by several 6x6 posts. Is that correct?

Incidentally, I would never build a deck to be supported by a concrete pad only. I would install footings per code, and install pad around the footing. As the pad is there, I'd just cut a square in the pad to enable access soil so proper footings could be dug and installed.

As for the beam I'd consider lightweight steel or glulam beam.

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Old 01-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #3
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


check out this site - lots of good info

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/p...ks/details.pdf

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Old 01-05-2012, 03:17 PM   #4
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


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Originally Posted by jb4211 View Post
glulam beam.
x2.

You can get glulam sizes up to 40'+.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:21 PM   #5
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by jb4211
Incidentally, I would never build a deck to be supported by a concrete pad only. I would install footings per code, and install pad around the footing. As the pad is there, I'd just cut a square in the pad to enable access soil so proper footings could be dug and installed.
X2

Additionally any splices in beams must be over a post. So either find proper length 2x or set new posts accordingly.

2x12 joists seams over kill on a deck that size. You can get waterproofing that fits on 2x8's.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:39 PM   #6
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


Every yard around here has 20' 2x12s.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:52 PM   #7
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


Personally I would frame the entire thing out of light gauge steel because I can order it in any size I want.

Ideally you would want to stagger every other splice (some people are having a hard time picturing but I know what you're talking about) however breaking both members of the beam on the same post is ok and by adding cleats you're even better off. I can't comment on the footings because I don't know your local requirements.

As far as waterproofing with 2x8, yes that is correct but it leaves you no room for can lighting so 2x12 is a good idea.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:25 PM   #8
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


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Originally Posted by DeckPros
Every yard around here has 20' 2x12s.
Yeeeuuuuuuuuuhhhhppp. Same here.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:34 PM   #9
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


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Personally I would frame the entire thing out of light gauge steel because I can order it in any size I want.

Ideally you would want to stagger every other splice however breaking both members of the beam on the same post is ok and by adding cleats you're even better off. I can't comment on the footings because I don't know your local requirements.

As far as waterproofing with 2x8, yes that is correct but it leaves you no room for can lighting so 2x12 is a good idea.
Robert, it may be "ok" as you say, but I would avoid if at all possible.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:38 PM   #10
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


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Originally Posted by jb4211 View Post
Robert, it may be "ok" as you say, but I would avoid if at all possible.
How is it any different than a 10' beam on a 10' deck?
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:38 PM   #11
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCDF
As far as waterproofing with 2x8, yes that is correct but it leaves you no room for can lighting so 2x12 is a good idea.
Depends on the system, something like the TT dry space it wouldn't be possible ether way. With a membrane type system I see what you saying.

How do you waterproof your steel framed decks?
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:41 PM   #12
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


Thanks for the replies everyone.

In this particular location, there are no local requirements. No codes, no code office, no permits and Alabama has no state-wide minimum code. It makes it interesting to find subs who do correct and good work. I've pulled subs from as far as 90 miles away to get guys who are correctly licensed and insured and who work regularly up to codes.

I could go on and on with some of things you see in these rural parts of the state. Even more amazing is that there are absolutely NO real estate disclosure laws. Rural Alabama is truly the wild west of real estate and I have learned a lot in a short time.

The footers for the posts and slab are not an issue. I should have been more clear. The original house footer and footer for the concrete patio were dug and laid at the same time. The part of the slab that the posts rest on is over that patio footer. They used core-filled block to come up to grade and then put a slab on that. Found that out when we dug down and checked to see what was there for a foundation and adding some drainage pipe. Plenty to support the deck. Plus the existing deck was there for 12 years without issue and the posts are all in perfect shape. They were even wrapped at the bottom, which is not something you see in these parts very often.

The 2x12 are overkill but as Robert said, leaves more room for can lights, electric, etc and I've got plenty of height below the deck.

I'll call around a bit more for the 2x12x20. Struck out so far unless I wanted a full load of them.

Light-weight steel or a glulam is an interesting idea. No issues with the glulams outdoors?? It will be waterproofed from above but the weather on this lake is pretty much like a rain forrest. The valley holds a lot of moisture and the underside will be exposed.

Anyone have any pictures of steel beamed decks?
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:50 PM   #13
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


EPDM rubber, the best way to do wood or steel frame (although it's easier on wood frame). On wood frame you use staples and window tape, on steel frame you use contact cement and window tape.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:51 PM   #14
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


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How is it any different than a 10' beam on a 10' deck?
IMO, a 20' wide deck with two 10' beams does not have the same support as solid 20' beam.

I have seen this done and even done it myself on the first deck that I ever built. But, I have seen the joint come apart for whatever reason. My mom has a house in Sea Isle City, NJ, the house across the street has a wide deck that has two beams as opposed to one. The joint is over a post. But, when you look at it, the left side beam is higher than the right side. Is this more of an issue with the actual construction? Yes. Would this be possible with a single beam? No. That deck is supported by three posts, but you get the point (I hope).

I'm not an engineer by any stretch, but I just don't like joints in beams - if I can avoid it. If a single beam costs a little more, I'll push for that over saving a few dollars. Just my opinion.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:52 PM   #15
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCDF
EPDM rubber, the best way to do wood or steel frame (although it's easier on wood frame). On wood frame you use staples and window tape, on steel frame you use contact cement and window tape.
How do you waterproof the penetrations. I tried that once and ended up with an under deck waterproofing system.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:55 PM   #16
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


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Anyone have any pictures of steel beamed decks?
http://www.deckmagazine.com/pdf/2011/1103/1103buil.pdf
There's some in here, I could overload this forum with pictures but I won't do that to everyone here.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #17
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


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Originally Posted by jb4211 View Post
IMO, a 20' wide deck with two 10' beams does not have the same support as solid 20' beam.

I have seen this done and even done it myself on the first deck that I ever built. But, I have seen the joint come apart for whatever reason. My mom has a house in Sea Isle City, NJ, the house across the street has a wide deck that has two beams as opposed to one. The joint is over a post. But, when you look at it, the left side beam is higher than the right side. Is this more of an issue with the actual construction? Yes. Would this be possible with a single beam? No. That deck is supported by three posts, but you get the point (I hope).

I'm not an engineer by any stretch, but I just don't like joints in beams - if I can avoid it. If a single beam costs a little more, I'll push for that over saving a few dollars. Just my opinion.
Did the decks you mention have the cleats the OP had mentioned? I doubt it, the difference in height on your example deck is likely variation in lumber.

An LS90 on each side of a split beam will do wonders to keep you beams tight to each other.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:58 PM   #18
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


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How do you waterproof the penetrations. I tried that once and ended up with an under deck waterproofing system.
The window tape (and even the EPDM) does wonders at self healing around the screws in the decking clips. There are no other penetrations
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:00 PM   #19
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Re: Beam Splicing Advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCDF

The window tape (and even the EPDM) does wonders at self healing around the screws in the decking clips. There are no other penetrations
So tape down each joist. Is that the peal and stick double sided black stuff that you still have to clean and prime?
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:27 PM   #20
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So tape down each joist. Is that the peal and stick double sided black stuff that you still have to clean and prime?
At the time that picture was taken there was no window tape installed, I'll try to take some pics tomorrow after the window tape has been put on.

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