4x4 Posts In Concrete Vs. Saddles

Strongarm

I've learned to always use saddles in concrete to support my 4x4's for my fence posts......golden rule..never have wood in concrete. To be honest my fences have always sucked....never solid and straight enough.
Last night I watched Mike Holmes pound off 55 yards of fencing putting them in holes and filling with concrete.
What is the life expectancy of a 4x4 treated in concrete before the water rots it?
Does anyone have any tricks to keep the whole concrete from moving around in the ground...??? do you get a packer or what?

Pros and Cons of saddles in concrete vs posts directly in concrete..???

Thanks alot ....

Chris McAvoy
Strongarm Framing

KennMacMoragh

Saddles for fence posts are dumb, I saw it once, makes a very weak fence. Put some gravel in the bottom of the fence post hole before you pour concrete in it if you're worried about it lasting a long time.

deckman22

I know the old cca treated post would last longer than the rest of the fence, this new stuff, I don't know. Still, I would not use saddles.

Something that some may not know is that only the sapwood of yellow pine accepts treatment. The heartwood will not take the treatment, but it does not need it anyway as it will not rot before the treated sapwood does. Look at your 4x4 post, if you have a growth ring in the center with plenty of heartwood around the center that post is not going to rot.

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Deckman
www.alscustomdecks.com

JonM

Currently, there are four levels of pressure treatment, regardless of the chemical used as a preservative. These are based on the intended use of the product and the measurement is in pounds of preservative per cubic foot of wood product. The ratings and suggested uses are:

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parkers5150

imho the main reason fence posts fail is not so much that they are in concrete, but rather that the installer does not take the time to "finish" the conc. correctly. 99% of the fence guys out there drop the post and the crete in the hole, plumb and line it, then they take there big hoof and slide a little dirt up and around their newly completed project. the dirt is the major culprit in fence post rot. dirt harbors the insects, moisture, and organic matter for fungus. take the extra time, add a little extra conc. and "finish" it so that water and debris move away from the post. not one of my favorite things to do these days, but there are fences i built 15+ years ago that are still solid as a rock. hope that helps

Santa's Helpers

slope the concrete down away from the post to shed water and you will not have any problems. I have installed and removed many posts. The ones that fail do so above the concrete. Water pools above the concrete at the base of the post and that is were the rot occurs. Make a small pyramid sloping away from the post to shed water and the problem is solved.
Jeff

jtpro

I plan on re placing my whole fence line and along SH's suggestion I will be sealing mine too.

Call it overkill but, it'll make me sleep better.

RobertCDF

Want to make a bullet proof fence? Use a 6x6 ground contact treated posts and wrap the entire bottom in Ice & Water shield. Then bring your concrete up and slope it away. If the Ice & Water shield is above the concrete your post should last.... well I dont know 100% but I will bet it will last 50+ years.

Another untested idea is you use truck bed liner I think that stuff would waterproof really well.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
Colorado Custom Decks
Custom Composite Decks

Tom R

I installed treated 4 X 4 posts for the fence entering my back yard about 17 years ago and they're still just fine.

Did I mention that one of them hinges a custom-made 13' (chain-link) metal gate that operates only on it's two gate hinges attached to one of the said 4 X 4's at the one end, and a small wheel to ride on (the concrete slab) at the other?? It gets opened and shut at least an average of 2 to 4 times a day, every day (my trucks are locked in the yard at night).

Did I also mention I poured them in the dead of winter, a Jersey January??

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jtpro

You mean off the shelf Tom or you added Xtra treatment?

Tom R

At that time, off the shelf, - - but now I also coat the below-grade sections with foundation coating or similar, just for the added protection.

(and I was thinking about it, - - yeah, it will be 17 years this January, - - I installed them in Jan,'93, along with a couple hundred foot of 6' privacy fencing, of which all the posts are also still holding up just fine).

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jtpro

Cool!

Years ago helping my Dad do stuff around the acreage I wanna say linseed oil ? (memory's foggy from the 80's) Anyway treated posts below grade for added protection always stuck in my head as the "right way".

Plan on doing the same!

DecksEtc

If I did that in the area I am in, the posts would all be heaved from frost in less than 2 years.

I've removed many, many crooked fence posts/fences because the previous installer had the concrete up to ground level.

John Hyatt

This whole wood in the ground thing is intersting to me mostley because how bad the pt lumber is now a days. I have been using motor oil and now have a gal of Cuprinol #10 we used on the current Garapa deck>>Thanks Neo!!<< foundation. That stuff has a good rep and track record and has a midley intreging sent. But really I am not puting any wood in the ground with out something on it the lumber is just too poor.

On thing I have done with high $ trellis covers, go on and use the best pt posts I can find then 6'' below and above grade fasten copper flat stock to the post with copper nails. The more water,the more it leaches,the more protection. Thats an ol Joe Wood's trick I learned from the Master himself. J.

Side note>> the green Mafia is after Cuprinol as well its just a matter of time before they kick it to the curb along with anything else that actually works<<

jtpro

[quote=John Hyatt;746926]This whole wood in the ground thing is intersting to me mostley because how bad the pt lumber is now a days. I have been using motor oil and now have a gal of Cuprinol #10 we used on

quote]

Well spank my ass and call me Sally!

That's a new one! Used ? Do you soak or paint it on?

NEVER say one can't learn something new everyday!

Thanks!

skymaster

Up here that would bring out the hazmat squad :}
For many many years a great friend and contractor always used motor oil on the wood in concrete forms :}:}:}

woodworkbykirk

ive done the ice and water wrap method, no issues

im in a port city and the the city just redid a very large section of walkway piers along the waterfront, they used pressure treated 12 x 12's and 4x6's, but is was marine grade pt because its submerged, ill see if i can find out if that wood is easily attainable

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putting down subfloor with glue and screws, well i saw dr. smith and the robot too , i had a martian burger and a sonic shake

John Hyatt

I just paint it on the top of the creet,all 6 sides of the wood plate and up the sides of the posts. New Used 30 weight 60 weight whatever is around. With pictures showing micro un pro starting to rot in 9 mo or so in the ground I have to do something.

Motor oil is a very old trick, when I was up in Eugune Or the forest service used trany fulid on all their wood projects. J.

jtpro

That was probably before form release oils were readily sold. and it's cheaper than gallons of WD-40!

As to Mr.Hyatt I was curious about tranny and other oils/fluids I guess that answers it.

bert0168

Boat builders/restorers use trans fluid to make mahogany look like teak.

I've used it on my own boat, seems to work well.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCo. Yep, you guessed, sold by a fancy white guy, installed by the brown army.