24x24 Deck - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

amanandhisvan · 03-21-2008, 07:24 AM

Hey Everybody!!!! I just wanted to vent, and get your guys opinion. I have a friend of mine who just bought a new house. He wants a 24x24 deck with one set of 6' stairs. My Partner and I were slow for work so I went up to my buddies house and did a layout to get an estimate together for him. I was only going to charge him for materials and very low labor $400 a day for 2 men. The materials came to approx. $3500 for pressure treated lumber and screws,lags,hangers,ETC, Etc, etc,. Plus rental on auger. We have to sink and cement 6 6x6 posts. So my partner tells him it would take us about 2 weeks to build the deck from start to finish. So thats $7500 for the new deck. That day I give my buddy the price and he laughs and says all he could afford right now would be the materials. So a couple weeks go by and I have already wrote off the deck. My buddy calls me the other day and says that a guy who built a 10x10 deck next door said he could build his deck for him for $3100. This contractor is also making the deck larger 30x24. He told my buddy to just dig 3 holes for him for his support post and beam.(Contractor will do the rest of the work) I cant see how this is possible for $3100!!!! Plus the fact that he doesnt have enough support for that size deck!!! My materials alone were $3500!!! Is this guy stealing his lumber from somewhere!! Anyways now my buddy acts as if I was trying to give him a raw deal!!! I told him to go ahead and let the guy build the deck but dont call me when the SH*T falls down!!! I just want to get some opinions!!! He basically said in so many words u and you partner are a rip off!!!! I love this ****!! Never do work for friends or Family!!! THE GOLDEN RULE!!!!

:fur ious:

Susan Betz · 03-21-2008, 08:26 AM

We get this all the time in fencing, particularly horse fencing. Bids coming in at material prices, and we look like we're bank robbers.

The other guy doesn't have WC or insurance, doesn't cost in his overhead, like his truck or tools. Probably doesn't have engineering and won't pull a permit. He's working for employee-type wages. He'll skimp on materials. He doesn't know how to properly install the support. He's barely making it.

Don't take it personally. You can't compete with this kind of guy. Don't even try. It doesn't matter if it's friends or family, or total strangers. This guy is not your competition. If you calmly explain these facts to your friend and he still doesn't get it, then he deserves what he gets.

JonM · 03-21-2008, 08:49 AM

Forget your "friend", sit back and watch the inevitable train wreck...

...30', he would need - 4 2x12s x 30' girder to support it with just 3 holes...

redwood · 03-21-2008, 10:58 AM

Don't sweat it, I couldn't buy my materials for a deck that size at the price he is charging. I think that your "friend" is in for a rude awakening.

Working for friends and/or family is a tough proposition. I had some friends that I built a beautiful custom deck for many years ago. They sold that house and bought another one that had a huge existing deck. Years later, they were divorcing and the house was up for sale. Inspections required the deck to be replaced. I gave them a proposal on a $30,000+ job. Another guy came in a couple of hundred dollars less and got the job. I was PO'd.

The wife buys another house and wants a deck. I knew I should walk away, but we needed work. I give her a design and cost estimate. I told her we would do it for time and materials. She is also friends with my foreman and he has done all kinds of work for them on the side, with my approval. Somebodyelse gets the job. I heard they were a couple of hundred dollars cheaper, but did not use the same quality of materials. On top of that, my guy stains the deck and hooks up the Spa. I will not talk to her again and I was mad at my foreman. He has been with me for 20+ years so I could not fire him, but I let him know how I felt.

Sorry about the rant.

amanandhisvan · 03-21-2008, 01:15 PM

Thanks for all of your replies, I should of never even wasted my time with the deck!!

Stone Mountain · 03-21-2008, 01:57 PM

I am going into my 30'th year. I cannot tell you how many times I've lost a job for the sake of a few dollars,although sometimes the money difference is stupid. Had one last year, that I quoted for $10,000, that went for $6000.00 Assuming material was the same, the contractor was working for just over 1/2 whaqt I was going to pay my men. Why would he even bother ?
Had another one a decade ago, a celebrity you would maybe know. I designed and quoted him for a major deck ($15,000), arranged a great landscaper for him, great service. Had an apointment to sign up. On my way over his wife called me to cancel the appointment: family emergency, she said.
2 weeks later the landscaper called me to complain about my poor workmanship on the deck, and how dissapointed he was in me. The irony was, it wasn't me building it. Some other company came in and used my exact design, and they were, get this, $250 less on a $15,000 deck!!
All they did was take my plan and beat my price! My only solace was that they wound up having to tear the deck down and redo it because it was such a poor job. The landscaper, who was and is a very high end guy told the owners that there was no way that deck measured up to the $100,000 landscape job because the workmanship was so poor.

As another example, although not in decks; we quoted a close friend of my oldest son to snowplow thier new building. Our seasonal price was $6500.00 They got one quote for $7500, and one for $1800.00
Of course they took the cheap guy. He admittedly had no liability, and drove a 30 year old truck, but assured the client there would be no problem.
As you can guess, he walked (drove?) away from the contract in January. They called me, but I told them I was too busy.

Sorry. I get carried away. Unfortunately this is part of our business, and it's called competition!

Bone Saw · 03-21-2008, 02:12 PM

this guy's name wouldn't happen to be jeff huss would it?

as an aside, based on the location, size and aspect ratio of this deck, taking into account the spans, # of footings and irc, you're talking about 2x10 joists, double 2x12' beams and footings with 22" dia, I think your a little short on your material figures. either way forget it and move on

DecksEtc · 03-21-2008, 05:03 PM

An anonymous call to to the local building department might just be in order.

Never mind the fact that there aren't enough posts, I can only imagine what that hack is going to put up for railings.

I'm not for going out of my way to rat on a guy as you know there's no permit for that deck. But, if your friend has any small children, I would really be concerned for their safety.

John Hyatt · 03-21-2008, 06:56 PM

Little Side Note>>> I actually had a guy on the phone yesterday

as I returned an E-mail....I am not kidding>>>" You cant expect to pass on every business expence to the Customer!!!!! your just another jerk that came to my house to try to rip me off . I Know The Cost of the Materials!!! Thats $1000 a day profit!!"

I was explaning as he was ranting that the bid he got included two guys out there,workers comp is 33% of the gross payroll, libality insur,traval time....Bang Bang!!!! " I dont care about operating expence Thats not My Problem !!!!

Its a Funny World. J.

Bone Saw · 03-21-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hyatt

I was explaning as he was ranting that the bid he got included two guys out there,workers comp is 33% of the gross payroll, libality insur,traval time....Bang Bang!!!! " I dont care about operating expence Thats not My Problem !!!!

and his deck (or lack thereof) isn't your problem

Greg P · 03-22-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DecksEtc

An anonymous call to to the local building department might just be in order.

Never mind the fact that there aren't enough posts, I can only imagine what that hack is going to put up for railings.

I'm not for going out of my way to rat on a guy as you know there's no permit for that deck. But, if your friend has any small children, I would really be concerned for their safety.

I agree. I don't know about an anonymous call, but I'd even convince my friend to get a permit.

On second thought...I'd make that call. That d-bag hack deserves it.

You know, I've never had good luck working for friends. I still find myself doing it because frankly, sometimes you gotta work.

But I finished a farmer's porch for a friend of mine a few years ago and got into it with his wife. She was hawking over me the entire time and basically it got to a point I told her to shut up and leave me alone.

I lost my temper and it nearly ruined a friendship.

Luckily, they're divorced now so it all worked out fine in the end.

Blackhammer · 03-22-2008, 11:16 AM

I will NEVER do work for friends or family... It is not worth it. I have told them this. I have also been hosed and have just decided not to.

bjg5240 · 03-22-2008, 08:08 PM

Just think, you'll get to rebuild the disaster once it falls down.

amanandhisvan · 03-23-2008, 10:18 AM

Now, My buddy asked me if I could build a ground deck instead. Man, this guy has nerve!!!

Susan Betz · 03-23-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amanandhisvan

Now, My buddy asked me if I could build a ground deck instead. Man, this guy has nerve!!!

Tell him your new rule. Tell him he's the reason it's in place.

DecksEtc · 03-23-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amanandhisvan

Now, My buddy asked me if I could build a ground deck instead. Man, this guy has nerve!!!

Sure, just let him know that the price will be increased by 33% due to the necessary excavation that will be required

onhitch · 03-24-2008, 03:20 PM

either your friend is a liar or he is about to get ripped off. let us know which happens.

onhitch · 03-24-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amanandhisvan

Now, My buddy asked me if I could build a ground deck instead. Man, this guy has nerve!!!

i just read this. your friend is a tool. first he tries to trick you into building it for nothing and now he wants a cheaper option. he's not your friend or buddy. good luck

mickeyco · 03-24-2008, 04:44 PM

Let me guess, the guy that can do it for $3100, is a fireman (no offense meant to legitimate firemen/contractors), so you know it's good.

Brock · 03-24-2008, 04:55 PM

Your way off on the material. Prolly run closer to 5k. You are also way off on your labor. 2 guys should knock that thing out in 4 days easy. Day 1 set all posts. Day two framing/joist hangers Day 3 Run out flooring and cut stringers. Day 4 Cut post tops, install railings, install steps. Total job $7500 or around $13.00 per foot. We would come in at just under 8k, but we would talk him down on size because nobody needs a deck that large. Especially someone on a budget.