Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

24x24 Deck

34K views 63 replies 26 participants last post by  rotarex 
#1 ·
Hey Everybody!!!! I just wanted to vent, and get your guys opinion. I have a friend of mine who just bought a new house. He wants a 24x24 deck with one set of 6' stairs. My Partner and I were slow for work so I went up to my buddies house and did a layout to get an estimate together for him. I was only going to charge him for materials and very low labor $400 a day for 2 men. The materials came to approx. $3500 for pressure treated lumber and screws,lags,hangers,ETC, Etc, etc,. Plus rental on auger. We have to sink and cement 6 6x6 posts. So my partner tells him it would take us about 2 weeks to build the deck from start to finish. So thats $7500 for the new deck. That day I give my buddy the price and he laughs and says all he could afford right now would be the materials. So a couple weeks go by and I have already wrote off the deck. My buddy calls me the other day and says that a guy who built a 10x10 deck next door said he could build his deck for him for $3100. This contractor is also making the deck larger 30x24. He told my buddy to just dig 3 holes for him for his support post and beam.(Contractor will do the rest of the work) I cant see how this is possible for $3100!!!! Plus the fact that he doesnt have enough support for that size deck!!! My materials alone were $3500!!! Is this guy stealing his lumber from somewhere!! Anyways now my buddy acts as if I was trying to give him a raw deal!!! I told him to go ahead and let the guy build the deck but dont call me when the SH*T falls down!!! I just want to get some opinions!!! He basically said in so many words u and you partner are a rip off!!!! I love this ****!! Never do work for friends or Family!!! THE GOLDEN RULE!!!!:furious::censored::furious::censored::furious::censored:
 
See less See more
#2 ·
We get this all the time in fencing, particularly horse fencing. Bids coming in at material prices, and we look like we're bank robbers.

The other guy doesn't have WC or insurance, doesn't cost in his overhead, like his truck or tools. Probably doesn't have engineering and won't pull a permit. He's working for employee-type wages. He'll skimp on materials. He doesn't know how to properly install the support. He's barely making it.

Don't take it personally. You can't compete with this kind of guy. Don't even try. It doesn't matter if it's friends or family, or total strangers. This guy is not your competition. If you calmly explain these facts to your friend and he still doesn't get it, then he deserves what he gets.
 
#4 ·
Don't sweat it, I couldn't buy my materials for a deck that size at the price he is charging. I think that your "friend" is in for a rude awakening.

Working for friends and/or family is a tough proposition. I had some friends that I built a beautiful custom deck for many years ago. They sold that house and bought another one that had a huge existing deck. Years later, they were divorcing and the house was up for sale. Inspections required the deck to be replaced. I gave them a proposal on a $30,000+ job. Another guy came in a couple of hundred dollars less and got the job. I was PO'd.

The wife buys another house and wants a deck. I knew I should walk away, but we needed work. I give her a design and cost estimate. I told her we would do it for time and materials. She is also friends with my foreman and he has done all kinds of work for them on the side, with my approval. Somebodyelse gets the job. I heard they were a couple of hundred dollars cheaper, but did not use the same quality of materials. On top of that, my guy stains the deck and hooks up the Spa. I will not talk to her again and I was mad at my foreman. He has been with me for 20+ years so I could not fire him, but I let him know how I felt.

Sorry about the rant.
 
#6 ·
I am going into my 30'th year. I cannot tell you how many times I've lost a job for the sake of a few dollars,although sometimes the money difference is stupid. Had one last year, that I quoted for $10,000, that went for $6000.00 Assuming material was the same, the contractor was working for just over 1/2 whaqt I was going to pay my men. Why would he even bother ?
Had another one a decade ago, a celebrity you would maybe know. I designed and quoted him for a major deck ($15,000), arranged a great landscaper for him, great service. Had an apointment to sign up. On my way over his wife called me to cancel the appointment: family emergency, she said.
2 weeks later the landscaper called me to complain about my poor workmanship on the deck, and how dissapointed he was in me. The irony was, it wasn't me building it. Some other company came in and used my exact design, and they were, get this, $250 less on a $15,000 deck!!
All they did was take my plan and beat my price! My only solace was that they wound up having to tear the deck down and redo it because it was such a poor job. The landscaper, who was and is a very high end guy told the owners that there was no way that deck measured up to the $100,000 landscape job because the workmanship was so poor.


As another example, although not in decks; we quoted a close friend of my oldest son to snowplow thier new building. Our seasonal price was $6500.00 They got one quote for $7500, and one for $1800.00
Of course they took the cheap guy. He admittedly had no liability, and drove a 30 year old truck, but assured the client there would be no problem.
As you can guess, he walked (drove?) away from the contract in January. They called me, but I told them I was too busy.


Sorry. I get carried away. Unfortunately this is part of our business, and it's called competition!
 
#7 ·
this guy's name wouldn't happen to be jeff huss would it?

as an aside, based on the location, size and aspect ratio of this deck, taking into account the spans, # of footings and irc, you're talking about 2x10 joists, double 2x12' beams and footings with 22" dia, I think your a little short on your material figures. either way forget it and move on
 
#8 ·
An anonymous call to to the local building department might just be in order.

Never mind the fact that there aren't enough posts, I can only imagine what that hack is going to put up for railings. :eek:

I'm not for going out of my way to rat on a guy as you know there's no permit for that deck. But, if your friend has any small children, I would really be concerned for their safety.
 
#9 ·
Little Side Note>>> I actually had a guy on the phone yesterday:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::shutup: as I returned an E-mail....I am not kidding>>>" You cant expect to pass on every business expence to the Customer!!!!! your just another jerk that came to my house to try to rip me off . I Know The Cost of the Materials!!! Thats $1000 a day profit!!"

I was explaning as he was ranting that the bid he got included two guys out there,workers comp is 33% of the gross payroll, libality insur,traval time....Bang Bang!!!! " I dont care about operating expence Thats not My Problem !!!!

Its a Funny World. J.
 
#10 ·
I was explaning as he was ranting that the bid he got included two guys out there,workers comp is 33% of the gross payroll, libality insur,traval time....Bang Bang!!!! " I dont care about operating expence Thats not My Problem !!!!
and his deck (or lack thereof) isn't your problem:laughing:
 
#20 ·
Your way off on the material. Prolly run closer to 5k. You are also way off on your labor. 2 guys should knock that thing out in 4 days easy. Day 1 set all posts. Day two framing/joist hangers Day 3 Run out flooring and cut stringers. Day 4 Cut post tops, install railings, install steps. Total job $7500 or around $13.00 per foot. We would come in at just under 8k, but we would talk him down on size because nobody needs a deck that large. Especially someone on a budget.
 
#21 ·
You must have the fastest two humans on earth. When I read things like this I wonder if I am THAT slow or I am just a lot more conscientious about the final product. Granted, I don't build PT decks, but screwing off a 24 x24 deck takes about two days in and of itself.
 
#28 ·
We continue to break the previous years record for new home construction and it is a dog eat dog business. You have to be damn good and damn fast and willing to work sunup to sundown 7 days a week or you aint gonna make it in new construction here. Every builder cuts the next builders price and passes it down the chain to the little guy.
 
#34 ·
Exactly!

I'd rather take 2 weeks on one deck and make $5-10K then bust my balls and make $400 a week building crap for a builder.

Brock, that 10'x16' deck that you built for $800 (divided by 2) is what I get paid $500-$1,000 to take down and haul away and then make another $5-10K to replace with a properly built, attractive deck.
 
#42 ·
was your price with material and everything. if it was then that is a good price.

[ quote=amanandhisvan;404647]Hey Everybody!!!! I just wanted to vent, and get your guys opinion. I have a friend of mine who just bought a new house. He wants a 24x24 deck with one set of 6' stairs. My Partner and I were slow for work so I went up to my buddies house and did a layout to get an estimate together for him. I was only going to charge him for materials and very low labor $400 a day for 2 men. The materials came to approx. $3500 for pressure treated lumber and screws,lags,hangers,ETC, Etc, etc,. Plus rental on auger. We have to sink and cement 6 6x6 posts. So my partner tells him it would take us about 2 weeks to build the deck from start to finish. So thats $7500 for the new deck. That day I give my buddy the price and he laughs and says all he could afford right now would be the materials. So a couple weeks go by and I have already wrote off the deck. My buddy calls me the other day and says that a guy who built a 10x10 deck next door said he could build his deck for him for $3100. This contractor is also making the deck larger 30x24. He told my buddy to just dig 3 holes for him for his support post and beam.(Contractor will do the rest of the work) I cant see how this is possible for $3100!!!! Plus the fact that he doesnt have enough support for that size deck!!! My materials alone were $3500!!! Is this guy stealing his lumber from somewhere!! Anyways now my buddy acts as if I was trying to give him a raw deal!!! I told him to go ahead and let the guy build the deck but dont call me when the SH*T falls down!!! I just want to get some opinions!!! He basically said in so many words u and you partner are a rip off!!!! I love this ****!! Never do work for friends or Family!!! THE GOLDEN RULE!!!!:furious::censored::furious::censored::furious::censored:[/quote]​
 
#43 ·
[ quote=amanandhisvan;404647]Hey Everybody!!!! I just wanted to vent, and get your guys opinion. I have a friend of mine who just bought a new house. He wants a 24x24 deck with one set of 6' stairs. My Partner and I were slow for work so I went up to my buddies house and did a layout to get an estimate together for him. I was only going to charge him for materials and very low labor $400 a day for 2 men. The materials came to approx. $3500 for pressure treated lumber and screws,lags,hangers,ETC, Etc, etc,. Plus rental on auger. We have to sink and cement 6 6x6 posts. So my partner tells him it would take us about 2 weeks to build the deck from start to finish. So thats $7500 for the new deck. That day I give my buddy the price and he laughs and says all he could afford right now would be the materials. So a couple weeks go by and I have already wrote off the deck. My buddy calls me the other day and says that a guy who built a 10x10 deck next door said he could build his deck for him for $3100. This contractor is also making the deck larger 30x24. He told my buddy to just dig 3 holes for him for his support post and beam.(Contractor will do the rest of the work) I cant see how this is possible for $3100!!!! Plus the fact that he doesnt have enough support for that size deck!!! My materials alone were $3500!!! Is this guy stealing his lumber from somewhere!! Anyways now my buddy acts as if I was trying to give him a raw deal!!! I told him to go ahead and let the guy build the deck but dont call me when the SH*T falls down!!! I just want to get some opinions!!! He basically said in so many words u and you partner are a rip off!!!! I love this ****!! Never do work for friends or Family!!! THE GOLDEN RULE!!!!:furious::censored::furious::censored::furious::censored:

Yeah...what he said. I second the motion? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
#44 ·
its always surprising the diff. across the country with regardes to pricing. without getting into a pissing match around here i get 38 to 50 a s.f. footings are no more than 6' apart 3' deep. 6x6 posts 2x12 beams and no less than 2x10 joists span less than 11 feet beam to beam hidden fastners ect.ect.
 
#45 ·
its always surprising the diff. across the country with regardes to pricing. without getting into a pissing match around here i get 38 to 50 a s.f. footings are no more than 6' apart 3' deep. 6x6 posts 2x12 beams and no less than 2x10 joists span less than 11 feet beam to beam hidden fastners ect.ect.
I am absolutely shocked and amazed how many of the contractors in here just don't have a clue about the way the dollar works. You take your 38 dollars per foot and spend it on everything it takes to live in your area. It would only take me 11 dollars per foot to live exactly the same as you. I mean exactly. The same house, the same truck, the same groceries, etc. My cousin is a master framer and folded up shop and took most of his crew to Cali. 6 months later he is back and he said they pay twice as much , but it cost 4 times as much to live.
 
#49 ·
change is change,money is money,what sticks to the bee is what makes Honey.

Its the bottom line Folks,after all the smoke clears. You can please the Wallet and drive on home,pay the taxes and get on the Bike. Traval around to the country side play with the tikes and have some funny.....but what sticks to the Bee is what makes the Honey.

I have got to Quit that Damm ol Bluse Bar!!!!!! J.
 
#50 ·
There is a balance between our mark ups and finding the best service for the customer.
Quality Counts and is number one. We usually use 4 x 6 or 6 x 6 support posts and 2 x 10 or 2 x 12 support beams and joists.

With a competitive market however $5000 - $6000 seems to be top dollars for this deck. References are needed customers are informed now a days and often when we have lost bids it is to good smaller builders and younger guys who actually did Nice work for the most part.

Materials stated are not even in the neighborhood of accuracy.
We use only Selected Stock and it seems more realistic in the range of one half of your estimated dollars for materials. We do have footers and most fasteners stocked.
Five Days of Labor with a good two man crew may be close
$2400. $1600 Actual Dollars in Materials. 25% Mark Up
$5000.00 Estimate should be an accurate close bid for budget conscious folk.
Upper End Work changes the scenario and bid pricing.
 
#52 ·
After reading this post I just went back and looked at a deck I just bid on for a family friend. Basic 20'x26' rectangular, PT, 30" off the ground. My bid was $4150. I basically did my materials and said well I think I want to make $2000 on this deck. By the square foot I basically just charged $7.98/sq.ft. I feel like an idiot now haha.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top