1 1/2" Nails For Hangers?

boman47k

Do you guys use only 1 1/2" nails for joist hangers?? Just does not seem long enough to me.

Woodcrafter74

1 1/2" for straight holes, 2 1/2" for angled.

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boman47k

That makes a little more sense! Thanks for the info. I still cannot see the big ado about hangers if 1 1/2" is all that is holding them. Little added support except maybe for racking motion. Then again, the combination of all of them.....

gregj

I use whatever the manufacturer specifies. Sometimes two different lengths in the same hanger.

BuiltByMAC

1 1/2" nails fully embed in a 2x ledger without sticking through the back. 6-8 nails into the ledger and 4-6 into the joist make for a very solid connection, esp. 10d Teco nails.

Withdrawl, that's a whole 'nother story. I usually wrap a 36" MSTA strap around the back of the ledger board and nail it to the top and bottom of the joist, every 4th joist. That will prevent joists from separating from the ledger board, the hangers provide support.

Mac

Mike Finley

Check out a company like Simpson Stong Tie and request some of their contractor information. I've got a 6 inch thick ring binder from them that explains everything, and I mean everything you would want to know. They also do free seminars around the country, well, well worth the time to try to attend one if hangers are part of your business in anyway.

A company like Simpson spends literally millions of dollars over the years in research and development, testing and getting code councils, and independent researchers to approve their products.

What they say is what you need to do.

Changing anything from what they tell you to do is not recommended or advised. That's is a Big no-no!

KentWhitten

It's not just any old 1½" nails which you prolly already realize. We used to sneak in 1¼" Teco's for truss clips because they were a smaller gauge and didn't blow the crap out of the top plate.

Like Mike says, Simpson has to spend that kind of money on their product. The liability insurance must be incredible on a product like that. Any failure at all would be a lawyers dream lawsuit.

The Simpson book will tell you what can be substituted. I personally use 10d's galvanized on hangers from my nail gun both straight in and at an angle. Here in Maine, they don't have anyone that really knows the code compliance stuff so it's usually no big deal. I wouldn't even think about that in many other states though, especially like the West Coast and Florida

reveivl

We have to use "hanger nails" here, fat with a '10' on the head, 1-1/4" long into the side of the joist, and 3-1/4's toe-nailed into the header on the diagonal through the hanger and the end of the joist.

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mickeyco

IBC and IRC require that you follow the manufacturers instructions/directions, in a pinch you can always use tapcons.

dougchips

Mickeyco, does Tapcon screws publish their sheer rating so you can show it to inspectors? We had this problem a few years ago with the timber screws not having the supporting data and the inspectors were not permitting them.

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reveivl

I agree, I wonder about the shear strength of tapcons. Also the pull-out rating for them, they are designed for concrete, not spf.

__________________
From where does knowledge come? If you need to know what is in a box, you could ask someone (not reliable), you could pray, (not useful), you can consult with the scripture (not helpful) or you could open the box (science)

mickeyco

I have the eMail I got from Tapcon's tech department about this somewhere, but I'll paraphrase the technical info they gave me, "they should be fine". Since the plans for this repair were done by another engineer, even though he didn't specify Tapcons, the city passed it over my objections. The city and the engineer are currently under investigation by the Sate of Illinois for all types of violations. The other concern I had, but didn't get an answer for, was the compatibility of Tapcons with CA and ACQ lumber as well as the galvanized plating on the brackets.

Mike Finley

You guys made me bust out the Simpson training manual.

Man are they specific about what to do and not to do, very specific about the types of screws and even the pre-drill depths, they specify 1/2 deeper than screw length in concrete. SDS screws for wood without predrilling, they say the type of nail required is stamped on their products, they even get specific on how much deformation of the hanger from hammer blows as to what is acceptable and not.

No deck screws, no lag screws, no drywall screws in wood, the shape of the holes in their products even are keyed to tell you what screw types are required. Hex holes are for masonary screws...

They even have a page that is a nail conversion chart for nail substitutions and load adjustment factors based on a nail substitution.
Example:
16D 3 1/2 replaced with a 10d 1 1/2 = load adjustment factor of -.64

mickeyco

You forgot, every hole designed for a fastener MUST be used, no skipping a nail because it's too hard to reach.

I have got to go to their site and find that specific information about the " no deck screws......." in writing (maybe the esr reports), it's a real common problem and I'd like something in writing to show.

widler45

If I have a question regarding any type of nails ect to use on my hangers I call 800 # on back of catalog and get the techy on the phone in my area Idaho.

Second Look

Of course they're specific. There's risk of injury or property damage if the product is used improperly. Would you want your house built using the SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) method?

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JamesNLA

Haaa, that's funny. Never heard that one before.

I have 2 that I say to the guys, just stupid ones I made up:
McDonalds = I'm lovin it (good job)
Nascar = Git er done (move your ass)

The stupid stuff I think of while working!

I need a few more

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John Hyatt

I have gone around this in my head over and over.

Using pt lumber, lots of water in it. A person installs the hangers completly right 0 space inbetween the joist and the steel the nails are angled up to pull the hanger snug,and thats no small thing to do with the stupid angled holes they put on them now, say everything is done perfectly every time.

The wood shrinks up as it drys the hanger is no longer even in contact with the bottom of the joists all the holding power is in what ever sheer factor there is in the fasteners. The pull away is still there of course but still dependent on the fasteners.

Up against using a couple of 20 glav ring shank pole barn nails toenailed thru the joist with 2'' or so in the rim. Postive sheer,almost impossible to get out,the wood can shrink all it wants with no effect on the conection. J

boman47k

Good points. Almost wish I had not seen them.

Second Look

Have you observed this?

It seems the joist would rest on the bottom of the hanger due to the load the joist is carrying. Any lost volume should show up as settling of the building.

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Second Look home improvement www.SecondLookHome.com
Handyman and Home Repair Specialist in Rhode Island
RI Licensed Lead Safe Remodeler/Renovator, RI Registered & Insured Contractor