You Guys Must Go Crazy!

dkillianjr

I am doing a very budget kitchen remodel for a family that really cant afford much more than the basics. Their old kitchen was just falling apart. The only electrical work the kitchen needed was a replacement light, replace a couple of recepticals with gfci's and replace a couple switches. Suprisingly a couple of circuits had been added to the kitchen at some time so there was plenty. To simplify things I threw the couple gfci's and switches in myself. Well when I got into the basement and really started looking around, it appears whoever updated the houses electrical system ran multiple 10-2 romex's to multipal junction boxes and then a couple 14-2's off of each box. I changed the breakers from 20 amp to 15 amp and checked the existing wiring. There is so much other mickey mouse electrical work in the house. You guys must go crazy when you go to do a job and see so much other crazy stuff! What do you guys end up doing most of the time? Just for the heck of it I am gonna give the customer my electritians card and tell them to let him have a look around at things. I don't think they can afford it though, thats the bad part.
Like I said you guys must run into this stuff all the time and go crazy?



Dave

mdshunk

No reason to go crazy. You do the work you were hired to do in a compliant manner, advise them on things you saw that should have attention, and move on to the next job. But, yes, this is pretty much an every day thing; seeing junk work like that. Some people think that if they twist a few wires together and the light comes on or the motor spins, they must be the smartest guy on the planet. "Making it work" is the easy part. Making it right and safe takes more effort, material, and knowledge.

Magnettica

Yup.... that's what I do too. Make lemonade from the lemons I am given I see all kinds of crappy wiring all the time. I'd say that's nearly 75% of the work I do -- clean up other peoples crap wiring. The other 25% is new installs. I'm on a new job now and it almost feels like a vacation. Crank tunes, draw funny pictures on the walls, make fun of the plumbers because they're plumbers, etc

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JumboJack

When it comes right down to it is there anything better?

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

woodchuck2

X2, i like to put my suggestions right on the bill and have them sign my copy so they cannot fault me down the road for someone else's hack job. This way it shows i indentified a possible safety problem and the owner chose not to have it repaired, their sig. waves my responsibility. I helped a buddy build his new home about 10 years ago, helped with the framing, roofing, decks, windows, wiring, etc. The whole time i was writing little notes here and there about him being a hairbag, gay, homo, etc. He is still finding little notes when he is doing something around the house like working in the basement or putting more circuits in his panel.

Thomp

X2, i like to put my suggestions right on the bill and have them sign my copy so they cannot fault me down the road for someone else's hack job. This way it shows i indentified a possible safety problem and the owner chose not to have it repaired, their sig. waves my responsibility.

smart move!

dkillianjr

Yup thats what I usually do, just do my work and if I see anything I let the customer know. Usually most of them say well we would like to get it fixed right now then, but there are always some that think I am crazy. At the same house today I noticed that the furnace flue pipe and chimeny are falling apart possibly leaking CO2 or will deffinetly start leaking. Thats one more thing for me to write down. I really like that writing on the final bill idea I am deffinetly gonna do that, cause thats one thing that always worries me after seeing bad work. With my luck a week after I finish something will happen to the house and the HO will say, it must have been that contractor messed something up!


Dave

jrclen

Sure, we all see hack work all the time. Like MD says, I make a note of it for the customer, explain the hazard and severity, and sometimes give them a price on fixing it.

I don't suggest they look around at things because they have no clue what they are looking for.

Like our friend Marc puts it, (with tongue in cheek), Hey, it works, what's the problem.

72chevy4x4

how much is a person who is not a licensed electrician permitted to do (non-homeowner)? change switches, breakers, lights and fans?

jrclen

This varies by state, but generally speaking, no electric work outside your own home. And you leave yourself open to law suits and even criminal charges if something goes wrong.

220/221

Welll...yeah....I DO go crazy. I get really aggitated at stupid people who don't thing more than one day in advance.


I was doing a t shoot/ repair this morning on some work that was only a few years old. Romex buried in the dirt, j box buried in the dirt, splices encased in mortar, LV landscape wire to an outlet. All of this work could have been done correctly without spending any more tiime or money. Just do it right IDIOTS.

Yeah....it drives me crazy. I realize that I am making money but it is such a waste of resources.

The good news is that it is springtime and about 75 degrees outside.

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Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

dkillianjr

Around here there is no lisense for electrical. You only need to be registered to do work in the city of Pittsburgh, but in the suburbs it almost like anything goes. Almost all of the electrical inspections are done by private companies, you just call and show proof of insurance get it inspected and you are good to go. The building inspector just looks for the green sticker.


Dave

dkillianjr

Maybe it was a 12 volt outlet I wouldn't mind it being spring weather here! I am tired of the sloppy stuff.


Dave

Jim M

Quite a change of tune from the post about the need for fan rated boxes. What happened to the other guy?

jrclen

Can you get insurance there to cover electrical work without a license? Here you need a license to get the insurance.

220/221

Same guy.



No one will EVER have an issue with a fan I've hung from 8/32's....EVER.

Capice?




Trying to equate the two scenarios is like comparing jaywalking with murder because they are both against the law.


Thanks for playing though. Maybe you will have better luck next time

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Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

dkillianjr

Yup its no problem, cause there is no electric license. In a way it kinda sucks cause anyone with a truck can be an electritian. The only licensed trade around here is plumbing and they are very strict about it.


Dave

Speedy Petey

Same as NY State. 'Cept you don't need a truck. A '95 Subaru Outback qualifies.

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dkillianjr

How about an 80's chevy station wagon. I used to see the guy all over the place


Dave

Mackie

HA!!! In a way I'm kinda glad to hear this...

My inlaw had a 'friend' finish her basement. He said he went to school for electrical. The finished job cost her about $8,000 - which is what happens when you give someone your Home Depot card (who happens to be doing work on his own house at the same time).

She wanted the place cleaned up a bit and a couple rec's needed to be hooked up - so I offered to do it. YIKES!!! Every time I looked under, over, or behind something my heart skipped another beat. Here's a sample of what I uncovered:

-all receptacles hot/neu reversed and/or no ground.
-no GFCI in bathroom / kitchen
-baseboard heaters wired incorrectly and powered through a 60A breaker! (14ga wire, no less)
-ceiling light fixtures screwed into a stack of 1x4's with drywall screws (no boxes)
-bathroom light's ground wire wirenutted to the lead wire
-every box/switch/rec was a huge jumble of wire
-no wirenuts on splices or conductor protruding from wirenut
-wires that go to nothing spliced into other wires in j-boxes
-bathroom fan not vented (outside, anyways)
-mysterious boxes hidden behind drywall
-14-2 romex leaves one rec and somehow becomes 14-3 at the next rec
-sub panel spliced to main feeder by a huge ball of electrical tape!!!

...and that's just the electrical problems. Every single thing - electrical / drywall / framing / carpeting / plumbing - the guy touched turned into a code violation. You should see the plumbing nightmare - no two pieces of plastic pipe that are connected (PVC or what have you) are the same color - black, white, black, white, etc. It's a miracle the house hasn't burnt to the ground.

Thanx guys for the great forum.

-mac

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