Why Does Code Note Require Gfci Breakers On Electric Water Heaters?

Celtic

TY
I'll leave my post up for others....I'm watching "Good Fellas" ~ so there's a bit of a lag effect

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macmikeman

When he touched that shower valve he was standing on some surface that helped to complete a circuit back to the voltage source somehow or other. He became part of that circuit, however limited by resistance enough that he only felt shock, it did not "electrocute" him. That person should have his dwelling checked for metal piping system bonding problems, even if he has had the element on his water heater repaired and there is no longer any fault current present on the water piping. However, with blown heater elements, there can be sometimes only a tiny fraction of current fault level, enough to get a shock, but not enough to trip the circuit breaker. A gfi in this case would actually be a pretty good way of preventing that scenerio. There is a proposal form in the back of every code book. Anybody can submit for a change. Go for it.

bwalley

Wrong

protechplumbing

I agree. I did note on the invoice that there are serious electrical grounding issues and that he needs to call a licensed electrician to check the building's grounding system. I could have bonded the heater but I am not licensed nor insured to do electrical work so I referred that portion of the job out.

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Plumber, Repiping, Replumbing, Leak Detection, Solar Water Heater, Polk County Plumber, Lakeland Plumber, Winter Haven Plumber

protechplumbing

How do ya figure bud?

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Plumber, Repiping, Replumbing, Leak Detection, Solar Water Heater, Polk County Plumber, Lakeland Plumber, Winter Haven Plumber

bwalley

If the top element was shorted out, it would have tripped the breaker, it sounds like there was an open in it and he completed the circuit and that is how he got shocked.

protechplumbing

It would only trip the breaker if the heater was grounded. Since the heater was not grounded, the circuit was not complete and therefore no current could flow to trip the breaker. The circuit was only closed to ground when he touched the faucet that was attached to the heater via the potable water distribution system. The only path to ground was thru his body at that point.

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Plumber, Repiping, Replumbing, Leak Detection, Solar Water Heater, Polk County Plumber, Lakeland Plumber, Winter Haven Plumber

tgeb

Maybe the term for someone who is not made dead should be "Electrified" ?

Just wondering, in case I need to know.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

Celtic

"Electrified" is generally usually used to refer to something that is "designed" to carry electricity...like an electrified fence ~ people really aren't of this design.

The exception to the "rule" being things that are not designed to carry electricity, but sometimes do and are capable of carrying it ~ like water pipes, aluminum siding/gutters, etc.

"Shocked" is the correct term for a person who has come in contact with electrified apparatus.


Fair enough?

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Speedy Petey

So you think GFIs are the solution to poor, incorrect and dangerous installations?
How about installing something correctly, safely and to code and we would NOT need anyone suggesting GFIs for water heaters.

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Speedy Petey

Yeah, I questioned that a couple of hours ago. No word on it yet.

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480sparky

So where is the rest of the circuit? His body can't be the end of it. The electricity had to go somewhere.

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Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

Speedy Petey

How do YOU figure? You are the plumber.
Are you actually suggesting the water in the pipes is a conductor???????
Please tell me you are not suggesting this.

The pipes themselves? Yes.
The water? Come on now.

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tgeb

Yes Sir.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

Celtic

There was a case in Florida, a few years back, where a plumber or HVAC man was injured [maybe died???] due to contact w/electricity.

I think a dryer or washing machine was involved.

I cannot find the article.....anyone?

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480sparky

Water as an electrical conductor.

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Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.

protechplumbing

I'm sorry, but exactly when did I suggest that a GFCI was the correct course of action to rectify the dangerous lack of bonding present?

What was needed was a bonding conductor running from the heater jacket to the building's grounding conductor.

How did you get off on that wild tangent?

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Plumber, Repiping, Replumbing, Leak Detection, Solar Water Heater, Polk County Plumber, Lakeland Plumber, Winter Haven Plumber

protechplumbing

No but his feet provide the path to ground.

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Plumber, Repiping, Replumbing, Leak Detection, Solar Water Heater, Polk County Plumber, Lakeland Plumber, Winter Haven Plumber

protechplumbing

There you go putting words in my mouth again. I never suggested anything of the sort. I was simply correcting bwalley on his statement about the water path.

There IS in fact a continuous path of water from the mans hands to the outer jacket of the heater element. That is what I was correcting bwalley on. At no point did I state or even insinuate that the water path it self was a viable path for the current to flow and cause an electrical shock (though I WILL do that now since you started down that road), I was merely correcting bwalley on the statement that "there is not a continuous path of water from his hands to the element jacket".

Now as far as the water being a conductor with a sufficient lack of electrical resistance as to allow enough current to flow so as to cause significant eletrical shock to the man, yes, that is possible. It will depend on the length of run through the water as well as the waters electrical conductivity (you do realize that it varies from source to source?). Another thing that you must consider is that the water lines were copper in that case so that the water's conductivity is more or less a mute point since it was a parallel circuit with a much higher ohm value than the copper pipe it self.

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Plumber, Repiping, Replumbing, Leak Detection, Solar Water Heater, Polk County Plumber, Lakeland Plumber, Winter Haven Plumber

480sparky

What ground? How?

__________________
Site : the area or exact plot of ground on which anything is, has been, or is to be located.
Sight : The power or faculty of seeing; perception of objects by use of the eyes; vision.
Cite : To mention in support, proof, or confirmation; refer to as an example.