Wall Pack Nightmare

pulpfiction32

Went on a service call today. Customer has a barn with a wallpack outside and 10 keylesses inside. she says that when the wallpack is on if she turns the barn lights on the wallpack turns off and then turns back on when it cools down. I checked it for myself and she was correct. the barn lights and the wallpack are on seperate breakers so i figured it was a loose neutral. so i tightened all the connections in the panel and in the wall pack nothing was really loose. so i checked to see if the was any voltage drop when the barn lights were turned on and it was only .5 volt drop. I also checked the main connections from where the barn subpanel was fed no problems there. I also changed the positions of the breakers so they were not on the same leg. Barn lights pull 8 amps and the wall pack pulls 2.5 amps. I couldnt fix it so we are going back next week. maybe i should get a ballast kit

mdshunk

Is the wallpack on an eye? The keyless fixtures might be making enough light to make the wallpack think it's daytime. Seen this many times, where nearby lighting will make a photo-controlled fixture cycle on and off. Sometimes the photo-controlled fixture itself will reflect light into the photocell and cycle itself off. Happened to me last week where a fixture was seeing it's own light reflected off the bright white crusted snow and ice. A reorientation of the photocell fixed the issue. The "cycling" has nothing to do with the fixture cooling down. It just takes a bit for the eye to realize it's dark and come back on. In your case, I think that the wallpack is getting a bit of it's own light in the photocell, and when the keyless fixtures are turned on, that little bit of extra light is enough to push the photocell over the edge, thinking it's daytime. When the wallpack goes off, that amount of light is eliminated, allowing the photocell to "reset" in a few minutes. Try orienting the photocell towards another direction, or maybe change it out for the swivel arm type that can be directed more easily. If this place is near your house, it might be worth stopping by when it's dark to sort this out.

CE1

The photocell looks to be the most likely problem. You might want to check to see if the correct lamp is in the wall pack. If the wrong lamp has been installed I have seen the light fixture cycle on /off for no other apparent reason.

Mark Twenhafel

Can you guys help me out here? What's a wallpack, what's a keyless?

Thanks,
Mark

mdshunk

Wallpack:



Keyless lampholder:

051473

Cover the eye with tape so any extra light will not effect it. Then see if the wallpack still shuts off when the keyless are turned on.

Hey, my first post. Been lurking for a couple days. Great forum.

220/221

HID lighting 101.


If it is a high pressure sodium lamp it is simply a bad lamp. They tend to cycle on/off when the go bad.

SOME metal halides do also.

******************

OK...I just re-read the post.

The wallpack is fine until you turn on the keyless fixtures?
Seperate circuits?
One neutral?

You said you checked neutral at panel and wall pack. You NEED to check the connections where the neutrals split (unless the wallpack jb is the home run). I think that a temp voltage spike form a loose MWBC neutral could affect the lamp/ballast

You should check the voltage at the wallpack while someone turns the keyless lights on and see if it spikes/drops substantially.

Bring out a ballast kit and lamp. Bring her some CF's for those keyless too

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

pulpfiction32

maybe i didnt make myself clear in my orignal post. the keylesses are in the barn and the wall pack is on the exterior so i dont think it has to do with any reflection plus the barn sits by itself in the middle of a field , not much for the light to reflect off of. Thanks for the help though

Mark Twenhafel

Keep us up to date, dude. I'm really curious, now. Mark

Tiger

If I couldn't troubleshoot a wallpack in less than 15 minutes, I'd replace it. It's a photosensor, ballast and socket. Not much worth playing around with. If you get normal voltage under load, replace it.

Dave

mdshunk

Does the barn have windows?

pulpfiction32

I replaced the ballast, cap. ignitor and bulb and photocell but it is still turning off im out of ideas

Canuck Sparky

Eliminate the photocell from the cicuit and test again. Let us know what you find. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction.

mdshunk

Canuck... you guys have electricity in Canada?

Canuck Sparky

I heard we have...comes from rubbing dry ice against polar bear fur...or something like that.

220/221

OK. MWBC.

Circuit A (wallpack) works fine.
Turn on circuit B (keyless) and A goes out....temporarily

Again...........................

You said you checked neutral at panel and wall pack. You NEED to check the connections where the neutrals split (unless the wallpack jb is the home run). I think that a temp voltage spike/drop from a loose MWBC neutral could affect the lamp/ballast

You should check the voltage at the wallpack while someone turns the keyless lights on and see if it spikes/drops substantially.


Just curious. Did you do these things?

__________________
Just because it's within code doesn't make it safe.

Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Bubbles

Had similar call last week. When porch light was turned on (cir. A) all the lights on 1st floor went off (cir. B). Turns out the HO wires the hots cir. A and B together on one side of Single Pole switch. It only kicked cir. B when he turned on rear porch light. We just took off and taped cir. A and everything works fine now. They were also out of phase as well which make sense since we got 120 at the porch light when turned on.

Just a thought. Good luck and keep us updated. The suspense is killing me.

Canuck Sparky

Did you get this problem resolved? If so, please share with us what you've found.

Edger Boy

This may be a little late but I would like to add my two cents. It sounds like the wallpack and the keyless fixtures are on separate circuits sharing a common neutral. When the breaker is turned on for the keyless fixtures the sudden increase in amperage in the neutral is extinguishing the arc in the arc tube within the HID lamp. The lamp later cools and comes on and stays on until you turn it off. This tells me nothing is wrong with the wallpack. It only takes a small sudden imbalance or spike in voltage to knock out the arc in a HID lamp.

A good test would be to turn on the keyless fixtures first, then turn on the wallpack. I bet the wallpack will come on and stay on again indicating no problem with the wallpack. Now turn off the keyless circuit and trun it back on, it will knock out the wallpack again.

If this were the problem, a separate neutral for each circuit would cure the problem. If they already have a separate neutral for each circuit then disregard this post.