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Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??

 
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:41 PM   #1
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Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


I need to find usage for a sub-panel, by the day and hourly.

Does anyone know which meters will do this?

I'll be calling Platt in the morning, but if anyone has any info, I would certainly appreciate it.



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Old 01-09-2018, 08:41 PM   #2
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
I need to find usage for a sub-panel, by the day and hourly.



Does anyone know which meters will do this?



I'll be calling Platt in the morning, but if anyone has any info, I would certainly appreciate it.







Delta


You just need a single phase (or 3 phase) power monitor Delta.
My guys with NAVFAC use them all the time direct to secondary sides of XFMRs. They can monitor usage up to the minute. Or hourly/daily/weekly to establish a curve, an average, and or peak.

I’ll have to reach out to them when I get to my office in the morning for a model/manufacturer.

Something like this. I was mistaken, not a “monitor” as much as an “analyzer”

http://en-us.fluke.com/products/powe...r-quality.html

Edit: They get in at 0800 if you want me to interrogate them



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Old 01-09-2018, 09:40 PM   #3
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


They have rings that go around the feeder cables, and a digital monitor that gets plugged in. Mine shows kWh usage.

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Old 01-09-2018, 09:51 PM   #4
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


I like those, but they're a bit more than what I need at this point. Maybe if I get a little deeper into off-grid power set-ups (which I'd love to do).

I've installed sub-meters for folks who just want a separate reading for a particular panel, but I don't think those have hourly or daily time info. Just a total kWh reading.

I'm setting up an off-grid system for a water well pump house, so well pump, pressure pump, and a light. I need to know what is the daily kWh used, as well as peak demand. Hence the time stamp data.



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Old 01-09-2018, 10:14 PM   #5
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


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Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
I like those, but they're a bit more than what I need at this point. Maybe if I get a little deeper into off-grid power set-ups (which I'd love to do).



I've installed sub-meters for folks who just want a separate reading for a particular panel, but I don't think those have hourly or daily time info. Just a total kWh reading.



I'm setting up an off-grid system for a water well pump house, so well pump, pressure pump, and a light. I need to know what is the daily kWh used, as well as peak demand. Hence the time stamp data.







Delta


I’m sure there has to be a product out there that will fit the bill at a reasonable cost. FLUKE has some great equipment and for a Linemen, justifiable I think. Probably overkill for the occasional user.
I have some brilliant BOSC contractors on my base that retired from the power company. I will pick their brain in the morning and let you know what I find out.


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Old 01-09-2018, 10:23 PM   #6
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


https://www.ekmmetering.com/ekm-mete...waAgMBEALw_wcB

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Old 01-09-2018, 10:42 PM   #7
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


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https://www.ekmmetering.com/ekm-mete...waAgMBEALw_wcB

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Now that seems very reasonable.


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Old 01-10-2018, 08:39 AM   #8
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


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https://www.ekmmetering.com/ekm-mete...waAgMBEALw_wcB

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EKM is one of the ones I was looking at, but the website doesn't have any info on time-of-day metering.


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Old 01-10-2018, 08:42 PM   #9
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


A "Smart meter" will do all that you ask, but that is a main meter. Will PG$E even install one in that area? Time of use, E6 kinda sucks these days, but off grid is another story, and there may be legality issues with doing so, as they (CPUC) require a grid connection, or at least the $5.00 a month fee.

Most folks use an amp clamp that is tied into their wifi, then data log onto a computer. There are plenty of different types available. Helps with solar folks trying to figure out how to maximize their systems on E6.

There are lots of options and I haven't researched the latest greatest. Here is the first option that popped up.
https://sense.com/
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:11 AM   #10
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


I got to say I have never used any of the systems out there but here are some that have... http://homeenergypros.org/forum/topi...-as-curb-sense
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:48 AM   #11
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


So I talked to the guys at Platt, and they basically said, "There's no such thing". Smart Meters always have a software program that does the actual data logging. The meter just sends info to the program, such as the Sense Program.

For a stand-alone data-logger, it's just the multi-thousand dollar meters, like the Fluke. And I don't need to read distortion to the 30th harmonic at this time.

I don't have a smart phone, or any "app" of any type, so that is out of the question.

For this job, I'll just get a meter and can, and wire it in. I'll have them read the meter twice a day, and start with that.

Thanks for all the help, guys.



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Old 01-12-2018, 06:09 AM   #12
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
So I talked to the guys at Platt, and they basically said, "There's no such thing". Smart Meters always have a software program that does the actual data logging. The meter just sends info to the program, such as the Sense Program.



For a stand-alone data-logger, it's just the multi-thousand dollar meters, like the Fluke. And I don't need to read distortion to the 30th harmonic at this time.



I don't have a smart phone, or any "app" of any type, so that is out of the question.



For this job, I'll just get a meter and can, and wire it in. I'll have them read the meter twice a day, and start with that.



Thanks for all the help, guys.







Delta


My guys at NAVFAC said the same thing but we’re fairly confident something was available without the major investment. They all use the FLUKE meters. Was waiting for a definitive answer from those boys before I posted any info, to save myself from getting beat up by all the sparkys for my ignorance.



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Old 01-12-2018, 11:54 AM   #13
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


I found this, which would be perfect......


https://www.tequipment.net/ExtechDL160.asp?v=7315

....But, it won't read or log anything below 10A. One of the motors is 6A 240V, so that won't work.

I think the Fluke 345 would work, but now I need to decide if I'm gonna shell out $1,500 for one, and try to get some more off-grid work.




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Old 01-12-2018, 02:17 PM   #14
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


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Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
I found this, which would be perfect......


https://www.tequipment.net/ExtechDL160.asp?v=7315

....But, it won't read or log anything below 10A. One of the motors is 6A 240V, so that won't work.

I think the Fluke 345 would work, but now I need to decide if I'm gonna shell out $1,500 for one, and try to get some more off-grid work.




Delta
You would be spending $1200 too much

There are tons of options available. Google "Data logging current AC", and try other strings too. I know there are literally hundreds of units available. Especially for solar systems that don't use Enphase inverters.

All you need beyond the logger is a computer to plug it into and download the data for review.

https://www.microdaq.com/dent-instruments-ct-logger.php

https://www.microdaq.com/supco-data-...ata-logger.php

https://www.microdaq.com/reed-curren...ata-logger.php

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Extech-I...L150/205556939

https://www.amazon.com/Extech-DL160-.../dp/B004OSHVQK

Do a little homework before buying anything. Search under "solar system monitoring".
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:04 PM   #15
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


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You would be spending $1200 too much

There are tons of options available. Google "Data logging current AC", and try other strings too. I know there are literally hundreds of units available. Especially for solar systems that don't use Enphase inverters.

All you need beyond the logger is a computer to plug it into and download the data for review.

https://www.microdaq.com/dent-instruments-ct-logger.php

https://www.microdaq.com/supco-data-...ata-logger.php

https://www.microdaq.com/reed-curren...ata-logger.php

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Extech-I...L150/205556939

https://www.amazon.com/Extech-DL160-.../dp/B004OSHVQK

Do a little homework before buying anything. Search under "solar system monitoring".


Thank you, Peter.

I was on MicroDAQ the other day, but I was looking in a different area. I like those items.

Both of the ExTech items will not begin logging until 10A flows.

Now that I've switched from looking for time-stamped watt meters, and started looking for current loggers, there is a bunch of stuff.





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Old 01-12-2018, 10:57 PM   #16
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


Is the pump house within wireless range of the House?

Old school would have been wire the pump house with a twisted pair phone line with the electric service....

A desk top PC could be the cheapest solution, with physical down loads, thumb drive, or whatever.

Then up grade to a trac phone modem? Maybe a 911/local service only land line connection, not so off grid....

A no- brainer would be combined gallons of water pumped vs Wattage used, and alarm conditions of broken pipes, dry well, power outages.

Old, old school = connect a 120 VAC hour meter to the well control relay for total hours.

Smart ranchers and farmers have a light bulb that is visible day & night that lights when the well pump is running .

Why not BUY a separate service meter and install it <400-500.00 $ in new parts.......
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:49 AM   #17
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Re: Sub-Meter With Time Breakdown??


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Is the pump house within wireless range of the House?

Old school would have been wire the pump house with a twisted pair phone line with the electric service....

A desk top PC could be the cheapest solution, with physical down loads, thumb drive, or whatever.

Then up grade to a trac phone modem? Maybe a 911/local service only land line connection, not so off grid....

A no- brainer would be combined gallons of water pumped vs Wattage used, and alarm conditions of broken pipes, dry well, power outages.

Old, old school = connect a 120 VAC hour meter to the well control relay for total hours.

Smart ranchers and farmers have a light bulb that is visible day & night that lights when the well pump is running .

Why not BUY a separate service meter and install it <400-500.00 $ in new parts.......
No WiFi/wireless up there.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my plan B was just to install a meter. There is no need for it to be there permanently, so I'd rather not do that, if there is a hand-held meter that will do this. And, a sub-meter doesn't do any kind of time breakdown, so someone will have to read the meter at regular intervals.



Delta

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