Structured Wiring, Lend Me ALl Ears....please.

M_Ant29

I currently install CATV, voice & data & fiber optics, but within the year I am going to veer away from this & begin installing structured wiring in new construction homes & possibly existing homes. (Not looking too forward to the latter option though...those Texas attics!! ) Anyhow, I am currently taking on line courses just learning the basics from the ground up & I indeed mean starting from the basics. I am now certified w/Leviton, but what other certifications would be best for me to have if I seriously intend to make a productive business of home automation? For starters I plan to install CATV, Data & voice wiring. Anyone familiar w/amy North Texas institutions that can assist w/my training opposed to on line? Any help or if any one runs a similar business your advice would be much appreciated!
Thanks, Marcus.

hbiss

I currently install CATV, voice & data & fiber optics, but within the year I am going to veer away from this & begin installing structured wiring in new construction homes & possibly existing homes.

Hate to burst your bubble but "structured wiring" is just something manufacturers like Leviton invented so that electrical contractors and others with little experience in voice, data and cable can get into the business.

It sounds to me like you already are doing this, so why do you think this will be any different? I would just continue doing what you are already doing and perhaps market yourself differently if you are not in the residential market.

I know you mentioned that you are "Leviton certified". Sorry, but that and a buck thirty five will get you a cup of coffee. About all that means is that you went through their sales indoctrination program.

You need to realize when you install wiring that's not the end. Somebody else is going to have to come in and connect it up. Yes, I know you have been told about those structured wiring cabinets or panels so you can do it all. I can tell you that if the customer wants any kind of multi-line telephone system your voice wiring is going to be removed from that panel. The cable guy is also going to remove all your RG-6 runs. Data runs should be terminated on a patch panel just like you have been doing. So why waste money on those panels if they are going to be removed and thrown out? Because Leviton wants you to buy them.



-Hal

GregS

If you are looking for certifications, join CEDIA and get at least an Installer Level 1. Then go for a Level 2 and work towards Designer.

If you want to get some serious automation, look into Crestron. There isn't much you cannot do with their hardware, or using their hardware to interface with other hardware.

Of course this will take time and a lot of money.

Take it easy and build your business slowly learning as you go.

As hBiss said, you need to know more than just pulling wire. You need to know why you are pulling the wire in the first place and then what to do with it once it's there.

And if you are any good with fibre.. start marketing those skills. There's a lot of smaller guys who come across having to do fibre on a large category 5/6 job and need to sub it out because they don't have the skills/tools. I know I have to.

M_Ant29

I checked out the Cretsron site "Building Homes", thanks. I hadn't yet heard of them, but I have Cedia & you are right it is DEFINATELY expensive. But if ya need it ya need it. And I appreciate the posts HBliss, I know the Leviton certification wasnt that big of a deal, I just wanted input on it, so that I thank u for. But I am a Cable Guy & we have yet to remove any preexisting RG6 runs....I possibly didn't fully understand the statement in its entirety, but the question would be, why? You made very valid points though. But Building Homes I needed your posts & I am in the works to start more detailed fiber optics training. Of course on a day to day basis we work with it, but our work is just based on cleaning, fusion splicing & reading light readings, not by any means in depth, hell a chimpanzee could do it. But I will definately build on your suggestions, thanks!

hbiss

I am a Cable Guy & we have yet to remove any preexisting RG6 runs....I possibly didn't fully understand the statement in its entirety, but the question would be, why?

The problem is with those structured media panels that companies like Leviton sell. These have various modules that you install within them that your drops get terminated on.

The one for the telephone drops just ties them all together for connection to one or two regular telephone lines from the phone company. Problem there is when the customer wants a multi-line system it needs each drop separately for each extension. So the telephone wiring gets removed from the panel and usually punched down on a 66 block next to it. Many times they will be too short and you will really be cursed out!

Then the cable guy comes along and sees the splitters and maybe the drop amp that Leviton sells for the RG-6 runs. That's all you have to do is connect the cable from the ground block to the amp and then connect all the runs from the jacks to the splitters right? Anybody ever measure the levels for both forward and return? Is that amp suitable for that cable system in terms of channel loading and bandwidth? Can you think of the reason why you shouldn't activate all the jacks in a house when there is nothing connected to some of them? Same thing for unterminated tap ports? (Think ingress.) So now the cable guy pulls all your cables from the panel. He cuts off your connectors and installs his own because there is no way of knowing whether you have done it correctly even if you do happen to use the approved connectors. Then he provides his own splitters as necessary for the actual number of sets, again outside the panel.

The only one of the three that may leave your panel alone is the computer geek. These guys have no idea what neatness is and don't know what anything is outside of a PC so you are pretty safe there. They will most likely just plug patch cords into the patch panel module, leave them hanging out of the door and throw a router or switch someplace, probably shoved in there somehow or maybe balanced on top.

So there you go. This is why most structured wiring panels wind up in the dumpster.

-Hal

M_Ant29

Hal, I could learn alot of stuff from a guy like you & I can damn sure tell that you know your S T when it comes to the ends & outs of this business. But, as stated previously, I have no college degrees, serious business acumen or rich Uncles so unfortunately I AM THE CABLE GUY... and judging by your post u are right, the panels splitter is next to never suitable for that cable system, especially ours. So yep, we bypass that badboy & slap in one of our own, thus further crowding the damn panel. And with our bunch we only make live cable connections within the home where our customers intend on having a set top box unless otherwise instructed. As wierd as it may sound, but true.
But on the flipside, I have to disagree w/most structured wiring panels ending up in the dumpster. Not here, not in the itty-bitty small state of Texas, not that I have seen regardless of how useful they may or may not be. My question is this Hal, if structured wiring panels seem to be so "useless" why are companies installing them alongside their other services? And even moreso, how much are they getting paid on average to install this simple wiring in each new construction homesite? I ask you because I think you would be the one to ask. So I will keep an eye on this post & watch for your reply. Thanks.

thom

hal, wish the dish guys worked like you.

On about half the houses I've built that have dish the installers install their own RG-6. They tell the owners that my RG-6 is no good and they must re-wire. They will run cable all over the exterior of the house, it looks like ****, and put their boxes adjacent to the ones we installed.

If I used white cable they will install black and if I installed black they will install white. The cable specs are identical. They insist on installing those ugly dishes on the front of the house even when connection access would be simpler if installed on the rear.

M_Ant29

U are right, some of the dish guys I have seen do a horrible job. I do not install dish, but have taken down alot of it in order to install ours. But we tend to use the white RG6 within the home, for example running it along baseboards if need be. Usually black is installed outside. I don't know why they would say your RG6 is no good unless they charge extra to run their own. And that my friend, is just plain bull!

hbiss

But, as stated previously, I have no college degrees, serious business acumen or rich Uncles so unfortunately I AM THE CABLE GUY...

So what's wrong with that?

... u are right, the panels splitter is next to never suitable for that cable system, especially ours.

What I'm trying to say is that you already know everything you need to know to do this kind of work. I think we also agree on the uselessness of structured wiring panels. So don't use them! Install a backboard, on it install a patch panel for the data runs, punch all the voice runs down on a 66 block then cross connect as necessary for the phone lines. Lastly, don't do anything with the cable runs. Just leave them neatly coiled up at their spot on the backboard for the cable guy. This makes everybody happy and should save you a couple of dollars.

-Hal

M_Ant29

Nice advice HBliss. I appreciate the post!