Romex Splice and Tap Kit?? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

DetailHandyman · 06-02-2009, 07:43 PM

Is anyone using them? What's the pros/cons?

Found these at store today. Made by Tyco Electronics.
Had seen them used on TV (TOH?) to connect pre-wired panels in a factory built house.

Apparently, they are kosher by code. Although, 334-40b would seem to preclude them for use in the above example??

Seems useful if relocating an overhead light or something. But, at $7 a pop, not too practical for more than that.

ampman · 06-02-2009, 08:39 PM

have seen these in double wide mobile homes to connect home runs , gfis ,and other circuits from one side of said home to the other,never have seen one fail but they are the push down type connectors

480sparky · 06-02-2009, 09:50 PM

Here's the skinny on them.

Celtic · 06-02-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetailHandyman

. Although, 334-40b would seem to preclude them for use in the above example??

Last I checked into it...they DID comply with 334.40(B) [HOW?...I have no idea]

IMHO, there are potentially dangerous....buried splices and that sort of line of thought [yeah..yeah...yeah...complies w/334.40(B)]

I would not use them...if a fixture needs relocating ~ I would use one the more established and time tested methods.

DetailHandyman · 06-03-2009, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celtic

if a fixture needs relocating ~ I would use one the more established and time tested methods.

There's the rub.

Run into this issue frequently. These McMansions never seem to have the kitchen/dining room lighting installed where the HO wants.

So, I need to relocate an OH fixture 2 bays away...of, course wires are too short. So I can rewire back to switch, or leave exposed (capped) original box and fish to new box. (am i missing another option other than track lighting?

)

The rewiring is never an option due to cost. Cap and fish flies sometime, but most don't want to see a cover plate next to the new fixture.

Seems that with the Tyco kit, I could extend the run, patch the old hole and have it look like the original work. In this situation, the splice is in an uninsulated cavity with a (generally) low amp draw.

Would meet the intent of 334-40, no?

ampman... yeah, these remind me of the scotch-lok connectors that car stereo installers are so fond of using. Those never fail

ampman · 06-03-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetailHandyman

There's the rub.

Run into this issue frequently. These McMansions never seem to have the kitchen/dining room lighting installed where the HO wants.

So, I need to relocate an OH fixture 2 bays away...of, course wires are too short. So I can rewire back to switch, or leave exposed (capped) original box and fish to new box. (am i missing another option other than track lighting?

)

The rewiring is never an option due to cost. Cap and fish flies sometime, but most don't want to see a cover plate next to the new fixture.

Seems that with the Tyco kit, I could extend the run, patch the old hole and have it look like the original work. In this situation, the splice is in an uninsulated cavity with a (generally) low amp draw.

Would meet the intent of 334-40, no?

ampman... yeah, these remind me of the scotch-lok connectors that car stereo installers are so fond of using. Those never fail

just saying i've never seen one fail but it seems like they would fail right and left

woodchuck2 · 06-03-2009, 07:34 AM

Those were in my home in the basement "modular home" for when they connected the structure so i removed them and installed juntion boxes.

480sparky · 06-03-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetailHandyman

..........(am i missing another option other than track lighting?

) ..............

Run the NM through several rows of joists, leaving a large loop in each bay. Once the location of the fixture is determined, cut a hole in for a box, reach in and grab the wire.

I do this all the time in bathrooms because 99.9% of the time, the HO doesn't have a clue about mirrors/med cabs at rough-in time.

DetailHandyman · 06-03-2009, 11:11 AM

Beautiful idea there 480. Would do that in my own house.
I wish that was the norm.

Unfortunately, everything I'm dealing with is old work.
I'd do the happy dance if I ever found some looped wire in a cavity.

mrmike · 06-03-2009, 11:24 AM

I Thought you were talking about old work & probably a 2 story. In that case, I usually try to pull any slack in the cable-sometime you can pull it back thru 1 ceiling joist & reroute it & might get enough. If not, I always give the customer 2 choices-either plugmold from on box to the other or run a new cable which usually means cutting a few square holes in the sheet rock to fish a new wire- & then patching them after..............
I would not use those splice kits- it would be better to actually have a running splice with the wires soldered together

ampman · 06-03-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmike

I Thought you were talking about old work & probably a 2 story. In that case, I usually try to pull any slack in the cable-sometime you can pull it back thru 1 ceiling joist & reroute it & might get enough. If not, I always give the customer 2 choices-either plugmold from on box to the other or run a new cable which usually means cutting a few square holes in the sheet rock to fish a new wire- & then patching them after..............
I would not use those splice kits- it would be better to actually have a running splice with the wires soldered together

by running splice do you mean no j-box

Celtic · 06-03-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetailHandyman

Seems that with the Tyco kit, I could extend the run, patch the old hole and have it look like the original work. In this situation, the splice is in an uninsulated cavity with a (generally) low amp draw.

Would meet the intent of 334-40, no?

Yes it would.

Here a reply I posted on another forum in '07:

Quote:

We discussed this product over at another forum recently:

Here is what I found:

quote:
* The AMP NETCONNECT Non-Metallic (NM) Sheathed Cable Interconnections provide a fast and reliable way to permanently interconnect 3.23 or 2.07 mm² (12 and 14 AWG) circuits. They eliminate the need for junction boxes, covers, wire nuts and box connectors.

* NM Cable Splices and Taps use insulation displacement contacts (IDC) and require no special tools for termination.

* Meets requirements of NEC 2002 articles 545, 550, 551 and 334-40B (Tap and 3-Wire Interconnection)

http://www.ampnetconnect.com/product...07&path=0,2299

NEC '02 334.40(B) states:

quote:
334.40(B) Devices of Insulating Material.
Switch, outlet, and tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished. Openings in such devices shall form a close fit around the outer covering of the cable, and the device shall fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of the covering has been removed. Where connections to conductors are by binding-screw terminals, there shall be available as many terminals as conductors.

For '02 code cycle - this product IS LEGAL.

For '05 code cycle, the NEC remains unchanged on 334.40(B), therefore this product IS LEGAL.

For the '08 code cycle, the NEC remains unchanged on 334.40(B), therefore this product IS LEGAL.

I, personally, would NOT use this product in spite of it's compliance with 334.40(B)

A few threads from some other forums where the item was also discussed:
Amp Connectors and 334.40(B) from 02-27-2007
Romex splice/tap connectors from 11-01-2007

One of the above threads also cites a reference to the IAEI:
http://iaei-western.org/Files/2007/2...ePanel_Q&A.doc

Here is the relevant text from that document:

quote:
93. A company advertises a "Romex 3 Conductor Splice Kit" which has been used in the past for connecting power in sections of a modular home. This company is now also claiming that these splice kits can be used in remodeling work in an existing house and be buried in the wall per "Article 334-40b" (their exact terminology). The UL listing category appears to be QAAV, which in the brief description in the White Book indicates that these must be capable of withstanding"... mechanical shock that might occur while transporting the units in which they are used." which would seem to indicate their use is for the modular home connections and not for burial in a wall. Is this the correct listing for the product? Can they be buried in a wall?

As the question states that these NM cable and splice kits are Lsited under the category Non Metallic Sheathed Cable Interconnectors (QAAV), located on page 240 in the 2007 White Book. This category covers self-contained interconnectors employing pressure cable connectors, insulation displacement or insulation piercing connectors for splicing or tapping nonmetallic (NM) sheathed cable. These interconnectors are intended for installation in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code."
These devices have been investigated for equivalency to Type NM cable in insulation and temperature rise, and for capability to withstand fault currents, vibration and mechanical shock that may occur during transport of the units in which they are used.

300.15 Where boxes or fittings are required, (H) Insulated Devices As permitted in 334.40(B), a box or conduit body shall not be required for insulated devices supplied by nonmetallic-sheathed cable.

334.40 (B) Devices of Insulating Material Switch, outlet, and tap devices of insulating material shall be permitted to be used without boxes in exposed cable wiring and for rewiring in existing buildings where the cable is concealed and fished. Openings in such devices shall form a close fit around the outer covering of the cable, and the device shall fully enclose the part of the cable from which any part of the covering has been removed.

These interconnecors are insulating devices equivalent to NM cable and can be installed in accordance with Section 334.40(B), so if is being used for rewiring in existing building, it can be concealed and fished.

Bottom line:
These interconnecors are insulating devices equivalent to NM cable and can be installed in accordance with Section 334.40(B), so if is being used for rewiring in existing building, it can be concealed and fished.

walkerj · 06-03-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Run the NM through several rows of joists, leaving a large loop in each bay. Once the location of the fixture is determined, cut a hole in for a box, reach in and grab the wire.

I do this all the time in bathrooms because 99.9% of the time, the HO doesn't have a clue about mirrors/med cabs at rough-in time.

Mr. Ken,
It is nice to see someone else uses this method

I never could understand mounting the box at rough-in because what if...

You are covered for any change.

ampman · 06-03-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Run the NM through several rows of joists, leaving a large loop in each bay. Once the location of the fixture is determined, cut a hole in for a box, reach in and grab the wire.

I do this all the time in bathrooms because 99.9% of the time, the HO doesn't have a clue about mirrors/med cabs at rough-in time.

this is thinking ahead ,my question is do you install a cut in box in drywall at the desired location or do you locate a stud and attach box to stud close to the desired location

480sparky · 06-03-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampman

this is thinking ahead ,my question is do you install a cut in box in drywall at the desired location or do you locate a stud and attach box to stud close to the desired location

If I install the light at or near a stud, I intall a pancake box. Between studs get a cut-in box.

naptown CR · 06-03-2009, 05:58 PM

As a remodeler I have high hopes for this product due to the reduced instance of random junction boxes in ceilings etc.

As a former electrician this looks like a fire looking for a place to start not to mention trying to track one of these things down when buried in a wall or ceiling.

Inner10 · 06-03-2009, 11:31 PM

Scotch locks are solid....for an average of 9 years...

I'm skeptical because it looks very similar to the beloved Tap-In that is a standard amongst car audio & car accessory hacks. Back in my days of tinkering with vehicals the tapins worked great until you get a few daisy-chained then your left with such a weak connection that problems begin to arise.

Quote:

I do this all the time in bathrooms because 99.9% of the time, the HO doesn't have a clue about mirrors/med cabs at rough-in time.

I do the same for in-wall speakers, works great.

pulpfiction32 · 06-07-2009, 08:45 PM

I know this is a cheesy fix but how about extending the chain on the light fixture and using a swag kit

480sparky · 06-07-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpfiction32

I know this is a cheesy fix but how about extending the chain on the light fixture and using a swag kit

Just replace the zip cord.

Winchester · 06-08-2009, 02:54 AM

480, do you leave all that slack in there when you install the light or do you try and yank it all out after?

If you yank it all out do you ever have a problem with kinks?