Romex Protection

Capt2 · 03-10-2007, 08:41 AM

Yesterday I was doing the drywall repairs after some recessed lights were put in by another contractor.

In 3 areas of the living room I found the romex just stapled to the underside of the ceiling joist with no metal plate protection.

I told the HO I would not proceed further unless the wires were protected per code, either by myself or the other contractor.

The HO wants help with a code reference before she calls back the electrical contractor. What is the code that requires this protection?

Also since this was done in 3 areas of the same room, how bad on a scale of 1 to 10 is this a safety issue? Thanks!

furbis · 03-10-2007, 09:59 AM

look at 300.4 "where subject to physical damage, conductors shall be protected" also 300.4 B 2

Capt2 · 03-10-2007, 01:01 PM

Thanks for the reply. I'm curious what the entire section of these codes state. Or anything about protection when wire passes in front of a stud or ceiling joist. Thanks again.

thom · 03-10-2007, 01:25 PM

Are you saying the romex is on the same surface of the framing the sheetrock will be applied to? If so, this is an absolute no-no. You can't possibly finish the sheetrock properly.

On the other hand, if the romex is on the side opposite the sheetrock surface you are ok, unless you are within 10' of an access scuttle.

Typically the romex must be protected if it is less than 1" (1-1/4" on 5/8 sheetrock) from the surface that will have the sheetrock applied. This is because the screws are typically 1-1/4", subtract the 1/2" sheetrock and you have 3/4" depth of drive (plus the distance of the dimple)

The difference with the 5/8 sheetrock is that 1-5/8 screws are used, giving a 1" depth of drive plus the dimple.

mdshunk · 03-10-2007, 02:02 PM

There's a lot of code on that, and any or all of it might apply to you:

300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage. Where subject
to physical damage, conductors shall be adequately
protected.
(A) Cables and Raceways Through Wood Members.
(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations,
where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed
through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members,
holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less
than 32 mm (11⁄4 in.) from the nearest edge of the wood
member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the
cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by
screws or nails by a steel plate or bushing, at least 1.6 mm
(1⁄16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed
to cover the area of the wiring.
Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to
protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit,
rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.
Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than
1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection
against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.
(2) Notches in Wood. Where there is no objection because
of weakening the building structure, in both exposed and
concealed locations, cables or raceways shall be permitted
to be laid in notches in wood studs, joists, rafters, or other
wood members where the cable or raceway at those points
is protected against nails or screws by a steel plate at least
1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width
installed to cover the area of the wiring. The steel plate
shall be installed before the building finish is applied.
Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to
protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit,
rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.
Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than
1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection
against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.
(B) Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cables and Electrical Nonmetallic
Tubing Through Metal Framing Members.
(1) Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable. In both exposed and
concealed locations where nonmetallic-sheathed cables
pass through either factory or field punched, cut, or drilled
slots or holes in metal members, the cable shall be protected
by listed bushings or listed grommets covering all
metal edges that are securely fastened in the opening prior
to installation of the cable.
(2) Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable and Electrical Nonmetallic
Tubing. Where nails or screws are likely to penetrate
nonmetallic-sheathed cable or electrical nonmetallic tubing,
a steel sleeve, steel plate, or steel clip not less than 1.6 mm
(1⁄16 in.) in thickness shall be used to protect the cable or
tubing.
Exception: A listed and marked steel plate less than
1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection
against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.
[ROP 3–28]
(C) Cables Through Spaces Behind Panels Designed to
Allow Access. Cables or raceway-type wiring methods, installed
behind panels designed to allow access, shall be
supported according to their applicable articles.
(D) Cables and Raceways Parallel to Framing Members
and Furring Strips. In both exposed and concealed
locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is
installed parallel to framing members, such as joists,
rafters, or studs, or is installed parallel to furring strips, the
cable or raceway shall be installed and supported so that the
nearest outside surface of the cable or raceway is not less
than 32 mm (11⁄4 in.) from the nearest edge of the framing
member or furring strips where nails or screws are likely to
penetrate. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the
cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by
nails or screws by a steel plate, sleeve, or equivalent at least
1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick. [ROP 3–17]
Exception No. 1: Steel plates, sleeves, or the equivalent
shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate
metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical
metallic tubing.
Exception No. 2: For concealed work in finished buildings,
or finished panels for prefabricated buildings where
such supporting is impracticable, it shall be permissible to
fish the cables between access points.
Exception No. 3: A listed and marked steel plate less than
1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection
against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.
(1⁄16 in.) in thickness shall be used to protect the cable or
tubing.
(E) Cables and Raceways Installed in Shallow Grooves.
Cable- or raceway-type wiring methods installed in a
groove, to be covered by wallboard, siding, paneling, carpeting,
or similar finish, shall be protected by 1.6 mm (1⁄16
in.) thick steel plate, sleeve, or equivalent or by not less
than 32 mm (11⁄4 in.) free space for the full length of the
groove in which the cable or raceway is installed.
Exception No. 1: Steel plates, sleeves, or the equivalent
shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate
metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical
metallic tubing.
Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than
1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection
against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.

Capt2 · 03-10-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thom

Are you saying the romex is on the same surface of the framing the sheetrock will be applied to? If so, this is an absolute no-no.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. But it is remodel work with 1" x 3" notches in the plaster used to run the wire. The electrician then put a big blob of nail hole filler in the notch, which I had to dig out because it's no good. That's when I found the wire stapled to the underside of the joist. I was appalled.

Capt2 · 03-11-2007, 01:44 PM

Thanks also Marc for the specific code wording.

RobertWilber · 03-12-2007, 12:30 PM

don't sound like a 'lectrician to me

Capt2 · 03-12-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertWilber

don't sound like a 'lectrician to me

I agree, but I even saw their truck, name, license etc. I told the HO to take some pictures. If I were them I sure wouldn't want my name attached to a picture of an ugly code violation

03-10-2007, 08:41 AM	#1
Capt2 View Profile Capt2 Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (85) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Home Improvement & Repair Contractor Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 85	Romex Protection Yesterday I was doing the drywall repairs after some recessed lights were put in by another contractor. In 3 areas of the living room I found the romex just stapled to the underside of the ceiling joist with no metal plate protection. I told the HO I would not proceed further unless the wires were protected per code, either by myself or the other contractor. The HO wants help with a code reference before she calls back the electrical contractor. What is the code that requires this protection? Also since this was done in 3 areas of the same room, how bad on a scale of 1 to 10 is this a safety issue? Thanks!

03-10-2007, 09:59 AM	#2
furbis View Profile furbis Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (39) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: electrician Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hudson, Colorado Posts: 39	Re: Romex Protection look at 300.4 "where subject to physical damage, conductors shall be protected" also 300.4 B 2

03-10-2007, 01:01 PM	#3
Capt2 View Profile Capt2 Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (85) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Home Improvement & Repair Contractor Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 85	Re: Romex Protection Thanks for the reply. I'm curious what the entire section of these codes state. Or anything about protection when wire passes in front of a stud or ceiling joist. Thanks again.

03-10-2007, 01:25 PM	#4
thom View Profile thom Thom Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,197) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Thom Trade: General Contractor/Homebuilder Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 3,197	Re: Romex Protection Are you saying the romex is on the same surface of the framing the sheetrock will be applied to? If so, this is an absolute no-no. You can't possibly finish the sheetrock properly. On the other hand, if the romex is on the side opposite the sheetrock surface you are ok, unless you are within 10' of an access scuttle. Typically the romex must be protected if it is less than 1" (1-1/4" on 5/8 sheetrock) from the surface that will have the sheetrock applied. This is because the screws are typically 1-1/4", subtract the 1/2" sheetrock and you have 3/4" depth of drive (plus the distance of the dimple) The difference with the 5/8 sheetrock is that 1-5/8 screws are used, giving a 1" depth of drive plus the dimple.

03-10-2007, 02:02 PM	#5
mdshunk View Profile mdshunk DGR,IABD Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (9,680) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity DGR,IABD Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central PA Posts: 9,680	Re: Romex Protection There's a lot of code on that, and any or all of it might apply to you: 300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage. Where subject to physical damage, conductors shall be adequately protected. (A) Cables and Raceways Through Wood Members. (1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (11⁄4 in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate or bushing, at least 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring. Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing. Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted. (2) Notches in Wood. Where there is no objection because of weakening the building structure, in both exposed and concealed locations, cables or raceways shall be permitted to be laid in notches in wood studs, joists, rafters, or other wood members where the cable or raceway at those points is protected against nails or screws by a steel plate at least 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring. The steel plate shall be installed before the building finish is applied. Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing. Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted. (B) Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cables and Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing Through Metal Framing Members. (1) Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable. In both exposed and concealed locations where nonmetallic-sheathed cables pass through either factory or field punched, cut, or drilled slots or holes in metal members, the cable shall be protected by listed bushings or listed grommets covering all metal edges that are securely fastened in the opening prior to installation of the cable. (2) Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable and Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing. Where nails or screws are likely to penetrate nonmetallic-sheathed cable or electrical nonmetallic tubing, a steel sleeve, steel plate, or steel clip not less than 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) in thickness shall be used to protect the cable or tubing. Exception: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted. [ROP 3–28] (C) Cables Through Spaces Behind Panels Designed to Allow Access. Cables or raceway-type wiring methods, installed behind panels designed to allow access, shall be supported according to their applicable articles. (D) Cables and Raceways Parallel to Framing Members and Furring Strips. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed parallel to framing members, such as joists, rafters, or studs, or is installed parallel to furring strips, the cable or raceway shall be installed and supported so that the nearest outside surface of the cable or raceway is not less than 32 mm (11⁄4 in.) from the nearest edge of the framing member or furring strips where nails or screws are likely to penetrate. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by nails or screws by a steel plate, sleeve, or equivalent at least 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick. [ROP 3–17] Exception No. 1: Steel plates, sleeves, or the equivalent shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing. Exception No. 2: For concealed work in finished buildings, or finished panels for prefabricated buildings where such supporting is impracticable, it shall be permissible to fish the cables between access points. Exception No. 3: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted. (1⁄16 in.) in thickness shall be used to protect the cable or tubing. (E) Cables and Raceways Installed in Shallow Grooves. Cable- or raceway-type wiring methods installed in a groove, to be covered by wallboard, siding, paneling, carpeting, or similar finish, shall be protected by 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick steel plate, sleeve, or equivalent or by not less than 32 mm (11⁄4 in.) free space for the full length of the groove in which the cable or raceway is installed. Exception No. 1: Steel plates, sleeves, or the equivalent shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing. Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1⁄16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.

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03-11-2007, 01:44 PM	#7
Capt2 View Profile Capt2 Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (85) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Home Improvement & Repair Contractor Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 85	Re: Romex Protection Thanks also Marc for the specific code wording.

03-12-2007, 12:30 PM	#8
RobertWilber View Profile RobertWilber Philadelphia electrician Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (346) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Philadelphia electrician Trade: Electrical contractor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: King of Prussia, PA [Philadelphia] Posts: 346	Re: Romex Protection don't sound like a 'lectrician to me __________________ Philadelphia electrician

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