Residential Windmill

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-11-2017, 01:41 PM   #61
John the Builder
 
SmallTownGuy's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter/Builder
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 8,564
Rewards Points: 6,108

Re: Residential Windmill


Quote:
Originally Posted by KG007 View Post
Coal provides over half the energy for the U.S. as a whole. Where it is plentiful, electric rates are relatively low, though they have gone up dramatically the last eight years because of goofy regulation.

I'm all for renewable sources, especially if it can power my car cheaply. Or if I invent it. I despise oil companies who have gouged us for over a decade. But right now, the most economic sources are coal, natural gas, and oil for most energy uses.

I think it makes sense to have a lot of sources chip in a few percentage of the whole, but don't want it dictated by stupid regulations. I also think that instead of looking at big centralized sources, if we come up with individualized sources it makes more sense. Like solar panels or windmills, though water/wave power should be ready sources, since mainly you're trying to turn a wheel.

I'm not interested in great new sources at 3X the cost. But it seems like we should be able to get small scale cheap power.
What you don't know would fill volumes.

The US of A broke up Rockefeller clear back in 1911 precisely because he, without regulations, became a monopolist in the oil industry.

This has been going on for far longer than you or any of us on CT have been around.


Tell you what I'll do - you seem like a nice guy, so I'm going to help you out: I'm going to let you buy into my 100 mile per gallon carburetor Company for $30K. In return, as a sign of my good faith, I will let you use my personally developed, battery-less, silent, automatic, never needs maintenance, 30 kilowatt Wind mill for free and for life.

Whadya say pardner? Put it right there and we got a deal.

(well, unless you already invented a better one)
__________________
"Now there are some preachers on TV with a suit and a tie and a vest . . . They want you to send your money to the Lord but they give you their address."
~Hank Williams Jr. lyric from The American Dream
SmallTownGuy is online now  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 01-11-2017, 02:31 PM   #62
Pro
 
KG007's Avatar
 
Trade: Flooring & cabinetry
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 416
Rewards Points: 268

Re: Residential Windmill


Wow! Will you do that for me??? What a guy! You don't mind taking a check on the Bank of KG, do you?

I do indeed not know a whole lot of stuff. However, I do know a little history, economics, and bidness. Part of what I know is the oil industry is a relatively small group of companies and nation-sponsored producers, all with a common interest in oil prices going up.

That was all helped by goofy government policies and false reporting and speculation. There was a political aspect with libs wanting the economy to suffer so Bush would be blamed and Hillary/Obama would be elected, plus the whacko wing of the Dems hate gas/oil/coal. Starting about 2007 or so we got a huge artificial oil price bubble, which led to more investment and production, breakthroughs in technology, etc., countered by the Obama Administration limiting offshore and government controlled leases.

Historically, oil is a commodity and the industry typically had about 3% NIAT. And because of huge demand, that resulted in some of the largest corporations in the world.

During the bubble, industry nets went to over 10% with some companies. That is AFTER income taxes, which means they ain't worried about watching the budget like yo and me.

The spot price of a barrel of oil went through the roof and every time it went up much, or a little bad news in the world, they bumped prices at the pump for what was already in the tanks. And the spot price has nothing to do with their cost of production or long-term contracts. Exxon isn't paying the spot price and buying crude for their base production on the spot market.

Bad news? Oh, we raised prices because our replacement oil is going to cost more! (Six months from now.) You know, just like ice after a hurricane costs $20 for a $2 bag.

Then the bubble burst. I haven't looked lately, but the spot price went from like $110/barrel to $30-something or less. If it wasn't artificial, it wouldn't have gone over $100/bbl and couldn't have tumbled 75% or more. And, if you've noticed, pump prices are down only about 30-40%. Part of that is it won't be a 1:1 relationship because of processing and fixed costs. Part is government jacking taxes. Part is hanging on to jacked up prices.

Notice prices come down then, on ONE DAY, every station jacks it $.30? And do the prices stay up? No, they start creeping down within a couple days -because it is an artificial price bump. If it was real, prices would stay where they are raised, at least for a significant time period.

Oil/gas is a fantastic commodity, but oil companies are the same as what comes out of the south end of a horse.

Last edited by KG007; 01-11-2017 at 02:34 PM.
KG007 is offline  
Old 01-11-2017, 05:35 PM   #63
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 2,369
Rewards Points: 544

Re: Residential Windmill


Well, no one gave you any good answers, probably because they don't know any, so I'll give it to you.

Voltage, Current,and Frequency are all proportional to each other, and are determined by a number of things, one of which is speed at which the generator spins. Coils of wire, strength of the magnetic field, and number of poles are the other variables.

Now, wind is anything but constant. So even if you installed a commutator, and generated DC power, you would eliminate the problem of frequency change, but not voltage or current. Now, there are several ways to stabilize voltage, like on a vehicle alternator that limits it to 13.8 VDC, and you could do the same, set it for a high of 13.8 VDC, and a shut-off at, say, 11.5. But now you'd have to use this power at low voltage DC, or run it through an inverter.

Now, say you have a 400 watt turbine, and you produce 13.8 VDC. This gives you about 29 Amps, not counting losses ( I'll get into that in a minute) at 13.8 volts. After you change this to 120 VAC, you have just over 3 amps. Doesn't run much.

Now for losses. The best pure-sine inverters are only about 85% efficient. So now you actually get about 2 3/4 amps.

Now, as soon as the wind slows down, the system has to shut down. As the wind speed fluctuates, your power goes on and off.

However, a turbine spinning off and on constantly makes a decent battery charging system. But, wind is the least efficient method of generating power. Solar and micro-hydro are generally more efficient.

Wind power is excellent, and vastly under-utilized for direct power applications. For example, a direct wind-powered well pump, or grain mill, is immensely efficient. It's under-utilized because this country has become accustomed to cheap electrical power, so we think of generating electricity first, then using it for what we actually want to do. Every time you convert energy from one source to another, you lose some of it. So after you have converted wind to DC, DC to storage battery, battery to AC, AC to well pump, you've probably lost 50% or more of your total energy.

If I can be of any further assistance to you, please let me know.

I commend this helpful website to you attention: http://www.homepower.com/

I have no pecuniary, financial, business, or familial, dealings with this website at all. I merely have found it to be a valuable resource.




Delta
__________________
There's fast, there's good, and there's cheap. You can pick one, sometimes two, but never all three.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Seven-Delta-FortyOne For This Useful Post:
KG007 (01-12-2017)
Old 01-11-2017, 08:32 PM   #64
Capra aegagrus

 
Tinstaafl's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 20,591
Rewards Points: 1,674

Re: Residential Windmill


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
Well, no one gave you any good answers, probably because they don't know any, so I'll give it to you.
Beg to differ. The responses were tuned to the [perceived] technical ability of the OP, and an assumption that he wants to live in reasonably middle-class comfort.

Not saying your dissertation is incorrect, but I can guarantee that more than one of the respondents in this thread have plenty of the same technical knowledge.
Tinstaafl is online now  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:13 AM   #65
Pro
 
Peter_C's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Beautification
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,060
Rewards Points: 4,190

Re: Residential Windmill


What is crazy is the OP's bill is $175 @ $0.0824 a kWh, which is 2124 kWh a month

Yup I didn't realize the energy costs in KY were that cheap. There are no alternative energy sources that can compete at that cost. A better solution would be to figure out a way to lower your bills by investing money into the house itself. Heating is probably the largest percentage.
Peter_C is offline  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:58 AM   #66
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 16,092
Rewards Points: 4,155

Re: Residential Windmill


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bush View Post
For what the cost is it is not really doable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
Run the numbers, they'll answer whether it makes sense to do that. The answer is no, it doesn't make sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_C View Post
What is crazy is the OP's bill is $175 @ $0.0824 a kWh, which is 2124 kWh a month

Yup I didn't realize the energy costs in KY were that cheap. There are no alternative energy sources that can compete at that cost.
There is a technical answer - yes. There is a "does it make sense" answer - absolutely not.
hdavis is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to hdavis For This Useful Post:
Fouthgeneration (01-12-2017)
Old 01-12-2017, 10:00 AM   #67
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mid west
Posts: 1,251
Rewards Points: 4,359

Re: Residential Windmill


By a generator on a skid/trailer you can write off your business taxes, have competent Electrician wire up an automatic switch for power outages at home/shop, use plug in cables, pay taxes if ever used at home...

Buy stocks with the 30-40K$, use the dividends to pay part of your light bill.....
Fouthgeneration is offline  
Old 01-12-2017, 10:05 AM   #68
Pro
 
KG007's Avatar
 
Trade: Flooring & cabinetry
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 416
Rewards Points: 268

Re: Residential Windmill


Thanks everyone, especially 7D41. I wasn't looking at it so much as getting off the grid or a huge cost savings, but could a "supplement" source be done at a reasonable price. Everything I've read seems like the issues are like a lot of you have described, especially a bank of batteries. I figured there were problems with "filtering" the power and tying into the house so fluctuations were smoothed out, but don't know enough to know exactly what those issues are or if they can be overcome reasonably.

So using my house as an experiment is discarded. Maybe I should have bought a place with a good creek and played with a water wheel, huh?

My house is actually 2x6 framing and well insulated, built during the first energy crunch. For rental property or houses to turn, insulation and new windows usually give immediate results in comfort and lower utility bills. I think it would be nice if someone came up with a simple sysyem that we install in remodels, so it becomes as common as replacement windows, that will maybe give us half our power at a reasonable cost.
KG007 is offline  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:47 PM   #69
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 16,092
Rewards Points: 4,155

Re: Residential Windmill


Quote:
Originally Posted by KG007 View Post

So using my house as an experiment is discarded. Maybe I should have bought a place with a good creek and played with a water wheel, huh?

Besides any EPA clearance for building next to a stream, you need DOE clearance for putting in a microhydo unit. The good news is they streamlined the application / permitting process, so it wouldn't take as long as if you were building a 100 MWatt hydro plant. You can't even use an existing dam and add a hydro set up without DOE approval.
hdavis is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to hdavis For This Useful Post:
Fouthgeneration (01-12-2017)
Old 01-12-2017, 01:30 PM   #70
Pro
 
KG007's Avatar
 
Trade: Flooring & cabinetry
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 416
Rewards Points: 268

Re: Residential Windmill


Yep, those damned revenuers and gubermint bureaucrats ruin everything, don't they? Why, they even keep trying to shut down stills and tax corn squeezin's around here!
KG007 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to KG007 For This Useful Post:
SmallTownGuy (01-12-2017)
Old 01-12-2017, 02:15 PM   #71
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mid west
Posts: 1,251
Rewards Points: 4,359

Re: Residential Windmill


KG007 @70? See : http://www.breitbart.com/california/...-12-one-month/

The permit for a still used to be just 10.00$, but you owe 16.00$ Gallon of 200 proof alcohol production unless its de-natured...

See also the whiskey rebellion early 1800s...

Estimated cost of all federal and state regs is ~34,000.00 per employee year, for under 50 employee businesses it rises to ~50,000.00/worker....
Fouthgeneration is offline  
Old 01-20-2017, 01:24 AM   #72
Registered User
 
Dallasfan's Avatar
 
Trade: Hotel Maintenance
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 2

Re: Residential Windmill


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_C View Post
Perspective the is the key and spreading misinformation does not make one look good. Oil spills kill far more birds

So you are saying most of the time the gas fired plants are not needed, and wind generation is practical? Sounds good to me

Europe is far ahead of us in renewable energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post

We're a weird bunch of people us Americans: we have no problem letting a decade long war in the Middle East kill hundreds of thousands, destroy countless cities and villages - but kill one damned Bald Eagle HERE and it's a different story.

Personally, I don't want to see even one eagle get slashed - but I feel the same way about people too.


We shall see said the blind man.
The reason Europe is ahead of us in renewable energy is because the average cost of electricity in Europe is .35, .36 a KWH. It costs about .35 a KWH to produce solar energy. Therefore, it's a realistic alternative in Germany when they have to use so much coal and import 100 percent of their oil. As well as Alaska and Hawaii where rates are highest.

In the U.S. the average cost of electricity is about .12-15 a KWH. It's not reasonable to expect someone to buy a solar panel system which only works when the sun shines and never at night. And when it does, it produces electricity at 2.5-3X the costs.

But...it gets cheaper and more reliable every year. And the batteries from Tesla are a game changer.

Wind Turbines are the most expensive. Winds have to blow at least
7-9 MPH just to turn the blades. But they have to blow about 20-30 MPH to be efficient and reach maximum output. How often does that happen? And they are $$$. The cost of a KWH is variable but for a homeowner the electricity might be $1.50 a KWH. And the wind does not always blow.

The best idea is to design efficiency into homes from the beginning, Zero Point Energy: Thicker walls, heavier insulation and energy efficient appliances. And solar panels if you can afford a 20K system.

Solar panels get cheaper every year. They are like computer chips...faster, cheaper every year.

The U.S. should mandate specific building codes for each region that would emphasize energy efficiency. Homes consume 40 percent of the energy we produce. Imagine if our homes didn't consume any net energy. We'd reduce 40 percent of the energy ....less money out of our pockets, less carbon output, etc....less reliance on the Middle East.

Personally, I don't care how many of the big turbines are installed. I don't care how many birds die. It's funny that the tree huggers shed tears for dead birds but they don't share any love for dead and injured soldiers that get hurt in the Middle East. People are more important than birds.

We need to do something though. It's all talk and no action. The politicians in D.C. don't care. When you make 250K for speaking at Goldman Sachs for 1 hour (Hillary Clinton) I guess a $200 heating bill is no big deal.
Dallasfan is offline  
Old 01-20-2017, 05:01 PM   #73
Designer/Contractor
 
Rio's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Diego city/County, Cali
Posts: 1,969
Rewards Points: 900

Re: Residential Windmill


This is one of the standard wall and roof assemblies demanded by Title 24 part 6 starting this year in Cali.
Attached Thumbnails
Residential Windmill-capture-option-b-prescriptive-roof-attic-insulation.png  

Advertisement

Rio is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Rio For This Useful Post:
Dallasfan (01-20-2017)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Residential Flat roof Nac Roofing 8 04-23-2013 09:51 PM
Trying to get my Residential GC in North Carolina Ashevillian Contractor Licensing 8 03-05-2013 07:51 PM
Passing the Illinois residential roofing test. WTH stombaugh85 Roofing 0 07-30-2012 09:04 PM
OSHA acts to protect residential roofing workers Grumpy Roofing 20 04-29-2011 05:10 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?