Residential Windmill

 
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:15 PM   #41
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Re: Residential Windmill


A. Those numbers are totally made up and ludicrous. ii. Europe has put more money/effort into solar and windmills, and found the cost per Kw is astronomical. I seem to remember the cost per job created in Spain for green energy (Spain is the poster child for Europe in this) was something over $950,000. And that was a few years ago.

My original question is can a small windmill contribute something to my personal household use without a bank of expensive batteries? If a small windmill, or two, on the gable of the house or barn could be implemented for a few hundred dollars and provided 30% of domestic use, it might be worth looking at. But I don't know if such a system could be used with an inverter and tied right into the power coming in to the house without constant surges and issues. I'm not interested in getting off the grid, but if something like that would work, imagine if every house in the country had it and a fourth of residential use was covered.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:46 PM   #42
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Re: Residential Windmill


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Originally Posted by KG007 View Post
A. Those numbers are totally made up and ludicrous. ii. Europe has put more money/effort into solar and windmills, and found the cost per Kw is astronomical. I seem to remember the cost per job created in Spain for green energy (Spain is the poster child for Europe in this) was something over $950,000. And that was a few years ago.

My original question is can a small windmill contribute something to my personal household use without a bank of expensive batteries? If a small windmill, or two, on the gable of the house or barn could be implemented for a few hundred dollars and provided 30% of domestic use, it might be worth looking at. But I don't know if such a system could be used with an inverter and tied right into the power coming in to the house without constant surges and issues. I'm not interested in getting off the grid, but if something like that would work, imagine if every house in the country had it and a fourth of residential use was covered.
So, what are you going to do - keep asking the question until you get the answer you want to hear?

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Old 01-10-2017, 04:57 PM   #43
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Re: Residential Windmill


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Let's get rid of highways. They kill far more critters than any old windmill farm.


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Originally Posted by elite-roofing View Post
Wow. People have trouble staying on topic don't they. Quick answer to the original question is yes you can do that. In fact since most electric companies allow you to feed electric back to the grid for credit it just might be the best way to do what you are looking for.

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We out here in the 57th state can no longe get permits to feed back into the power grid. We must now have our own battery to feed.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:47 PM   #44
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Re: Residential Windmill


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Really??? The ones they use here have transmissions in them that keep the blades turning slow. You can see them turning here, they always go the same speed in 5 mph wind or 60mph wind.
https://youtu.be/Ln4jh1Vpa8A
https://youtu.be/E66tyLuuIDg
Ours turn the same all the time too. But take one tip and count how many time in a min it make the revolution. One would have to know a few factors to figure it out. I may be way off on fast they do turn. But I think it is faster then one thinks.

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Old 01-10-2017, 06:52 PM   #45
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Re: Residential Windmill


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A. Those numbers are totally made up and ludicrous. ii. Europe has put more money/effort into solar and windmills, and found the cost per Kw is astronomical. I seem to remember the cost per job created in Spain for green energy (Spain is the poster child for Europe in this) was something over $950,000. And that was a few years ago.

My original question is can a small windmill contribute something to my personal household use without a bank of expensive batteries? If a small windmill, or two, on the gable of the house or barn could be implemented for a few hundred dollars and provided 30% of domestic use, it might be worth looking at. But I don't know if such a system could be used with an inverter and tied right into the power coming in to the house without constant surges and issues. I'm not interested in getting off the grid, but if something like that would work, imagine if every house in the country had it and a fourth of residential use was covered.
From what I have seen and stated earlier , and what you are talking of trying to do I believe it would save you very little if any at all.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:17 PM   #46
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Re: Residential Windmill


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My original question is can a small windmill contribute something to my personal household use without a bank of expensive batteries?
It absolutely can, with the use of a single run of the mill car battery. Question is, are you willing to adapt your lifestyle accordingly?

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But I don't know if such a system could be used with an inverter and tied right into the power coming in to the house without constant surges and issues.
It can, but you wouldn't want to pay for the circuitry required.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:32 PM   #47
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Re: Residential Windmill


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Perspective the is the key and spreading misinformation does not make one look good. Oil spills kill far more birds

Straight from the "Tree Huggers" themselves.
http://www.treehugger.com/renewable-...000000000.html

I say BAN HOUSE CATS! But wait...I still want my cell phone to work



Europe is far ahead of us in renewable energy.
How many house cats are killing eagles? In Europe people are freezing their asses off because they can't afford to heat their homes thanks to their short sighted energy feel good policies.

yes, what I'm saying is just keep the gas fired plants, if one is concerned about carbon dioxide (aka plant food) causing problems, work on carbon sequestration, and move in a more measured path towards a green energy future. The U.S. has reduced it's carbon emissions far ahead of schedule due to the abundance of natural gas. It's a very clean fuel and thanks to the fracking revolution we are awash in it.

Regarding the bird blenders, their true cost is definitely hidden. There is no way they will ever be competitive cost wise as there are so many moving parts as well as the supporting structures and other items needed for their infrastructure. They are also no panacea as they only work when it's windy but not too windy. Put a 600 megawatt natural gas power plant working and there is no need for 600 1 megawatt wind turbines, that have all of those intricate moving parts, rare earth compounds imported from China, and a bunch of rusting metal columns.

We're dealing with the B.S. big time in California and what is financing it all is the California tax payer. We now pay about 40 cents a KWHR for electricity that should be about a dime a KWHR.
I'm all for sensible moves towards sustainable energy, like PV systems, although those also are no panacea, and am firmly convinced that with a little time and market forces we will end up where we want to be but huge, ugly, inefficient and destructive wind turbines are a boondoggle if there ever was one.

The bird kill statistics are not valid for a number of reasons on top of everything else.

So you are saying most of the time the gas fired plants are not needed, and wind generation is practical? Sounds good to me
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:05 PM   #48
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Re: Residential Windmill


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How many house cats are killing eagles?
Not one eagle has died over here from a windmill I guess you like eagles the most I hear they taste a bit better than the spotted owl.
We also have tradewinds that blow 80% of the year here. Many areas have very constant winds.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:20 AM   #49
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Re: Residential Windmill


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Not one eagle has died over here from a windmill I guess you like eagles the most I hear they taste a bit better than the spotted owl.
We also have tradewinds that blow 80% of the year here. Many areas have very constant winds.
How about ospreys, terns, gulls, etc.? Personally I prefer a nice juicy turtle to a spotted owl anytime Hawaii is one area where, just possibly, it might make some sense as it's so far to transport fuel and it is in the trade winds zone, a fact I'm well aware of from my short lived days as a commercial fisherman for ahi running out of pier 39 in Honolulu. What a miserable ocean to have to fish on, day after day of 8-12 foot chop all generated by the relentless trade winds blowing.

Even there, long term the solution will be some sort of fuel cell, with the fuel supplied by bioengineered natural gas of some sort; no moving parts, so clean, reliable, and getting closer and closer daily to becoming an economically viable source of energy.

Regarding the OP and with the bird kill issue in mind, possibly a vertical axis wind turbine would help if the winds were consistent enough to warrant the cost. PV systems, with battery if a grid tie in is not practical, seem to be where the market has gone and with the panels now offering micro inverter technology, where each panel has its own inverter, these systems are easily expandable. Of course, if one is off the grid there are all sorts of DC appliances available and the inverter can be dropped entirely, increasing the efficiency of the system by that alone by double digits.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:47 AM   #50
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Re: Residential Windmill


Our power needs to come from swell and wave energy.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:02 AM   #51
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Re: Residential Windmill


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In Europe people are freezing their asses off because they can't afford to heat their homes thanks to their short sighted energy feel good policies.
My families in Europe are doing just fine. In fact Finland has hot water supplied to the housing in town for heating. My wife's French family stays warm too.

Then there is Sweden. They lead the world charge on renewable energy and have set the bar higher.

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Regarding the bird blenders, their true cost is definitely hidden. There is no way they will ever be competitive cost wise as there are so many moving parts as well as the supporting structures and other items needed for their infrastructure.
Oh really?

"Denmark set a new world record for wind production in 2014, getting 39.1 percent of its overall electricity from the clean energy source.

Denmark has long been a pioneer in wind power, having installed its first turbines in the mid-1970s, and has even more ambitious aims in sight, including a 100 percent renewable country by 2050.

Last year, onshore wind was also declared the cheapest form of energy in the country."

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We're dealing with the B.S. big time in California and what is financing it all is the California tax payer. We now pay about 40 cents a KWHR for electricity that should be about a dime a KWHR.
You mean 18 cents a kWh, or tier 2 at 24 cents. If you are always in tier 3 at 39 cents a kWh you should be installing a solar system, as it is a no brainier.

The CPUC sets the cost, although in free trade it would be astronomical. Also don't forget the "Nuclear Decommissioning" fee, as San Diego now has one more plant that failed and needs funding.

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Originally Posted by Rio View Post
I'm all for sensible moves towards sustainable energy, like PV systems, although those also are no panacea, and am firmly convinced that with a little time and market forces we will end up where we want to be but huge, ugly, inefficient and destructive wind turbines are a boondoggle if there ever was one.
Would you suggest more of these beautiful objects instead? "Drill Baby Drill"



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The bird kill statistics are not valid for a number of reasons on top of everything else.
Why did you bring them up then? You are right, the statistics don't matter as wind power does little damage to the bird populations in the end.

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How many house cats are killing eagles
DDT sure did a number though. As to BIG birds, have you ever seen a California Condor? Man they are ugly, yet incredible.

So to the OP if you have good wind there are options. Putting a turbine on the house or barn is not going to work, unless you just want a little alternator type one that charges a battery. To offset your energy costs is going to take a far larger wind powered turbine. If you have enough property you could lease your land to a "private" group of investors that will install lots of wind turbines. Otherwise my preference is for solar. If you are consistently in tier 2, and often, or always, in tier 3 you should be looking hard for a way to at least knock yourself down to tier 1 only, as chasing tier 1 with wind or solar does not make as much sense.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:21 AM   #52
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Re: Residential Windmill


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"

Denmark has long been a pioneer in wind power, having installed its first turbines in the mid-1970s, and has even more ambitious aims in sight, including a 100 percent renewable country by 2050.

Last year, onshore wind was also declared the cheapest form of energy in the country."
Cheapest, meaning the Danish government has been taxing the crap out of all energy except wind energy.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:50 AM   #53
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Re: Residential Windmill


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Ours turn the same all the time too. But take one tip and count how many time in a min it make the revolution. One would have to know a few factors to figure it out. I may be way off on fast they do turn. But I think it is faster then one thinks.
Well Randy, I do hope you are better at estimating steel siding that you are at windmill tip speed:

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The World's Biggest Wind Turbine Blades Are So Long Their Tips Spin at 180 MPH
http://gizmodo.com/5930272/the-world...pin-at-180-mph
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:10 AM   #54
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Thanks, that was the question in my mind. Not getting much of an answer implies that it isn't common enough for much of anyone to actually know how, and as you say, could be done but the cost of the circuitry and finding someone who could do it makes it impractical. I wasn't looking for big cost savings; my residential cost is pretty low. House is 3,412 SF, all electric, and has a typical monthly bill of around $175. It was originally built in 1971 with solar panels, long since taken down and system disconnected. If it could be done for a few hundred dollars, I'd be tempted to try it just to prove an independent system that would work.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:59 AM   #55
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Well Randy, I do hope you are better at estimating steel siding that you are at windmill tip speed:



http://gizmodo.com/5930272/the-world...pin-at-180-mph
That what I was saying , they look to be turning slow, but really pretty fast. And I can't remember right now , but the blades on the ones we have around here are about the long. I know it is a long load when they are being transported.

Oh and yes am A Lot closer on figuring siding, LOL
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:49 PM   #56
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House is 3,412 SF, all electric, and has a typical monthly bill of around $175. It was originally built in 1971 with solar panels, long since taken down and system disconnected. If it could be done for a few hundred dollars, I'd be tempted to try it just to prove an independent system that would work.
Why did they take the solar panels down? Panels are commonly working 50 years later Are the mounts still available?

A $175 bill is worthy of a solar system, no doubt about it. Knock the bill down into tier 1 and you should have around a 5-6 year payback if not faster. From there on you will be putting $140 a month into your pocket that increases annually, as electricity prices rise.

Want to save money, do a self install. They are very easy to install.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:15 PM   #57
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Re: Residential Windmill


Solar panels in 1971 were very different from today. They wore out in a few years and their useful life was over long before I ever bought the house. They powered a solar water heat exchange unit, still in the laundry room in the basement. All the solar radiators have been taken out. Roof was leaking from where they were screwed onto the roof. Had those taken down and the roof patched. $175/month for all utilities is cheap. I've seen utility bills for lots of houses around here and all over the country. Nine years ago the average was $94/month. Expect some increase in eight years, but at least half of the rate increase is due to the stupid policies of Precious Leader driving up the cost of coal. You guys DO realize that over half of all energy in the country is from coal, and that it is the cheapest energy source, right?
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:20 PM   #58
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You guys DO realize that over half of all energy in the country is from coal, and that it is the cheapest energy source, right?
That depends on where you live....
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:20 PM   #59
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Panels are commonly working 50 years later

Unless one of the many possible natural calamities occurs. Some areas of the country, you're very likely to have them destroyed by hail, for instance.

A $175 bill is worthy of a solar system, no doubt about it.

Electricity is cheap some places in the US. Lexington, KY, the OP's location, is less than 9 cents a KWHr. He wouldn't exactly be counting the money rolling in if it's analyzed as an investment.
You're making a lot of assumptions that aren't necessarily correct for various portions of the US.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:24 PM   #60
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Re: Residential Windmill


Coal provides over half the energy for the U.S. as a whole. Where it is plentiful, electric rates are relatively low, though they have gone up dramatically the last eight years because of goofy regulation.

I'm all for renewable sources, especially if it can power my car cheaply. Or if I invent it. I despise oil companies who have gouged us for over a decade. But right now, the most economic sources are coal, natural gas, and oil for most energy uses.

I think it makes sense to have a lot of sources chip in a few percentage of the whole, but don't want it dictated by stupid regulations. I also think that instead of looking at big centralized sources, if we come up with individualized sources it makes more sense. Like solar panels or windmills, though water/wave power should be ready sources, since mainly you're trying to turn a wheel.

I'm not interested in great new sources at 3X the cost. But it seems like we should be able to get small scale cheap power.

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