Regrounding Receptacles

Bubbles

We just did a service change from hell and a week later owner said he got report from home inspector saying some receptacles are not grounded. So off I went. Long story short...house was built in 50's and whoever replaced all the receptacles in 70's or 80's snipped the grounds off way up high only 3-6mm from where it enters into old metal box. For one thing, why the hell would anyone snip the grounds off? Practical joke? Disgruntled? SAve time? Anyhow, nothing new we see it often. The old way could take 15-45min or more to try and get some more slack or cut or whatever is needed to pigtail that ground. There are 25 rec. in house. Looking for any other tricks out there to get up in there and pigtail quicker. Wago and Needle nose? Copper crimp and needle nose?? Any new connectors made to slide on and grab with only a few millimeters of conductor available?? Were going back next wed so I have time to see if any of you have some good ideas. Oh, the romex is probably stapled as well.

woodchuck2

I use the pigtails from ideal, you may be able to snip back the very end of the plastic nut to give you enough room to get it started on the wire. I dont know what the rules are about snipping off the end of the nut like that are but if it is OK then that may be a way to go. I personally would never modify a nut on line or neutral but for a ground i dont see where it would bother as long as the metal casing inside is still protected. Hopefully someone else chimes in with better idea's. Actually come to think of it i did see some connectors at the electric warehouse that had a chinese finger design and were meant to be used as splices. What make they were i dont know but they do make such a device. I have never been to fond of this kind of connection so i didnt pay much attention to them. Sorry if i wasnt more helpful.

stp57

Push nuts. Let the debate begin (again).
Steve

Bkessler

I like wago's for emergency like this or repetitive lighting tasks. Some times here those 50's houses are done with the ground going through the box and grounded behind the box with the romex strap screw. If that is the case you can just run a pigtail to another part of the box/ self tapping machine screw. 6mm is probably to little for needle nose and wago's. That is a tough one.

neolitic

This is America!
Don't be speaking metric here!

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dkillianjr

Boy this is a tough one. If you only have that much wire I dont think even a wago will work. I'm thinking crimp ring and needle nose and a lot of patience. Maybe a real long pair of needle nose would help or a mini pair of linemans. Maybe crimp a pigtail in half the ring then use it to hold the ring over the existing then crimp away.



Dave

220/221

Duh....what would you do if it was ungrounded NM?


GFCI breakers.





Grounded NM came out before all receps were required to be grounded. The electrician at the time figured nobody would ever need it.

Kitchens and baths were required first, later, all receps. I've never seen them cut off but I have sen them made up outside the box so they didn't get in the way.

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Just because it's against code doesn't make it unsafe.

Bkessler

What year did all branch circuits need an equipment ground? I know late 50's is when the kitchen and laundry were grounded but does any one know the code sequences when they started to be required.

Forry

What about cutting sheetrock? 25 outlets at what, 20 min. time savings? hotmud, prime and paint? might be cheaper. Also, less aggravating and done right. Just a thought.

edit: whoops, plaster I guess.. not the same thing. Still worth a thought I guess.

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Magnettica

$4k to fix all the receptacles, sir.

Or, $500 to install a few of these fancy GFCI circuit breakers.

So what'll it be?

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Bubbles

nice tip killian. I might make a few up sittin in the bed night before and try that one and see how it goes. I gave owner 3 options with prices (gfci, 2 prong , or reground all recep with prices maybe GFCI breakers?) and he chose the latter. It appears 3 prong outlets came out in 1947 for laundry and 1957 for outside and kitchen and 1962 for all others. I need to pin the year the house was built to figure out why snipping of grounds or at least why not ground the box? Here is excellent article on history of electrical for us. If you have an hour or so and don't know it all I would highly recommend reading and knowing it. It helps to make sense of things in old resi work.

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:...&client=safari


Cheers

TxElectrician

Good read Bubbles, thanks for the link.

Bkessler

That info will definitely help me out, thanks.

bjgelect

I wouldn't bother trying to get to the ground wires, they're inferior anyway, only 18-16AWG. I would install deadfront GFCI's at the panel, one for each circuit. GFI breakers are not meant for this use, only a GFCI receptacle has a ground reference, breakers do not. At one time the NEC handbook illustrated the use of GFCI receptacles for this purpose, and not breakers.

Big Sky General

GFCI breakers will work as long as they didn’t use and three wire. ARC will work also.

Bubbles

All cut corner boxes metal. Doubt if owner wants to put extensions on all of them sticking out of wall. No way a GFCI will fit in

pat c

e-z conectors used to change ballast all u need iss 3/8 inch to tap, fast and easy and cheap about a quarter each.... charge 1500 to repair the plugs lol

orson

Interesting article; isn't saying "AC cable" kind of like saying "shrimp scampi" ?

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Sparky Joe

GFCI receptacles and breaker's do not use the ground wire (if it exists) anywhere in it's circuitry.
This is why they can be installed as an exception to an equipment ground.

Use the GFCI's whether it be breakers or receptacles. This method would make the circuits far safer than even if a 3/0 ground wire were intalled directly to the xfmr from each device.

neolitic

Assuming an there is an original toilet,
the date is stamped inside the lid
and tank,

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