Recessed Lighting Close To Framing

EBFD6

Plus, his friend's, neighbor's, cousin's, boss's, brother-in-law is an electrician and said it's OK.

Which is weird because I hardly ever hear that.

480sparky

Yeah, but my mailman's third-grade teacher's paperboy's mother's trash collector said it's not.

As for me:

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memetic

Some people just can't take, or in this case, get, a joke - especially poor old 480sparky.

All I wanted was some quick advice, instead I got the "your doing everything wrong", "you don't know what you're doing", "the world is going to burn" people. Always knocking people down before they even know anything. Then, they become the butt of a joke and instead of laughing it off, they go into deep denial. Well, the following is for you:

I am still going to wire into the tube-knob wiring. This wiring system was installed in the house when they built it in 1867. If it can last that long, it is surely good enough to last longer - maybe forever. I already re-did half of the house using the existing tube-knob wiring. We took it from some places and added it to others. It's really easy once you get the hang of it. You just have to close it up before inspection.

thom

So why even ask? In the end, you really don't care what is legal, what is safe, what meets code, etc.

Code says you may not do what you are doing. Obviously you know more about electrical installations than the guys who write the code books and the guys who work with this for a living, so, why ask?

What you didn't ask was about the law, about statute of limitations, and about what happens when you violate building code. Here's the lesson.

What you are doing violates code. Everyone who owns or lives in that house (or even visits it) may have a claim against you until your estate is settled. If there is a fire or an injury that rusults from your installation, you are liable for all losses and punatives because you are acting in violation of the law. But, it gets better.

Sometime in the future, someone else owns the house. They discover the electrical does not meet code and work was done on it while you owned it. You are now legally obligated to cover all the costs of making the system meet code. The statute of limitations begins when the failure is discovered by the owner, not when the work was done.

You are also legally obligated to tell any potential buyer that the electrical work is deficient, dangerous, and illegal. This is the mandatory disclosure. Failure to disclose only adds to your headaches with a charge of fraud. This creates a problem for you. The legally mandated disclosure puts you in a position of being required to remedy the problem immediately because it was and continues to be a result of your violation of the law.

But, I guess you don't really give a damn as long as the lights come on.

480sparky

And so is written yet another chapter in the never-ending story of those who don't know what they're doing attempting to be electricians. In the end, you end up with a cobbled-together mess that's unsafe. Some day, a real electrician will find your hack work and say "What the ? Who the did this . Man, it's gonna take me weeks to clean up this and make it right!" If, by some divine intervention, the fire marshal doesn't find it first while sifting through the ashes of what was once your house.

Are you really so ignorant you honestly think wiring was installed in 1867 (a date I truly disbelieve)is going to last forever?

Again, if you want to burn your house down, go right ahead. Nothing I can do to stop you from being stupid. It's your life, your property, your insurance, your loss, your family. Just don't bitch about what a real electrician would charge to do the job right.



Personally, I still think you're related to handyman99. Are you two twins?








I think I'll just punch out now.

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memetic

You just don't get it do you? Well, at least someone else might come along with the same question I had and read what I found out and it will help them.

As for the proper installation (I hate to say I told you so, but...):


http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XPQVWBdhLkEad9Cvg20eEg?feat=directlink





I'm still going to use the tube-knob wiring. I'm just going to put duct tape around it where it goes near the hot light and into junction box.

mahlere

cause we all know duct tape is fire resistant...

i nominate this thread for "spoof of the week"....

EBFD6

I want to believe that you're joking, and I really hope you are. I remain slightly sceptical only because there have been some really dumb posts made on this site lately.

However, this thread started w/ you asking about installing recessed lights and 480's response, while maybe not as tactful as it could have been, was meant to get you to verify the installation instructions of your fixtures. Make sure that they can be used with romex (NM). I highly doubt that you are using knob and tube (judging by your last couple posts I'm pretty sure you're just F'ng with us). Just make sure you know the clearance you need from insulation and framing members. It appears you have gotten the information that you needed, but if you don't know what you're doing please get assistance from a licensed electrician.

We are only speaking from experience because we've seen people do some pretty stupid and dangerous things. Believe it or not, improperly installed wiring does cause fires.

See, I get jokes!

woodchuck2

I personally wouldnt even use those cans. The danm things look like a tower with the box on the end, those wires have to be getting hot being on the end like that and if they have to have a 3" spacing around the can for heat transfer then why have the damn box on the end of it? I would go with a better designed can IMO. As far as using knob/tube, you must be joking right? I rip that crap out every chance i get, i dont even like dealing with BX wiring due to its age and being brittle no less a poor ground. Tell me, the blackening on the boards in that roof is from age and not a previous fire right?

woodchuck2

I really hope those pics are distorted from the camera lense, man when you click on the pic the upper plate has an awefull bow to it.

ChrWright

Time to start drinking...

Please post of pics of the insulation you're no doubt going to pack around your non-IC low-voltage transformered can light--that's obviously an attic.

If you're only "joking", I'm waiting for the punch line.

I love the steel framing on your "addition"... http://picasaweb.google.com/fairhavener

Sleep well....hack.

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Celtic

What could go wrong?




In the OP's defense....he has managed to not kill himself from at least May 2008

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memetic

That's not my house. That is an example of a DIY guy who had no idea what he was doing. Anyway, you're calling me a hack? I own two very successful businesses and I have a Master's Degree from Yale. I'll bet you just barely passed the electrical licensing test.

EBFD6

Well, LA-DEEEEE-FREAKIN-DAAA............I have acid reflux and am barely smart enough to tie my own shoes, but I knew the answer to your very basic question. Who's the dummy now?

I have a suggestion of where you can put your master's degree!

strathd

Yep! your waaaay gooder!

JumboJack

And yet you asked a bunch of strangers for advise and you're still going to go ahead and do it wrong.


Check out the big brain on memetic.......

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

ChrWright

Yes, I'm calling you a hack.... something I don't do lightly. You have no business performing this work--no matter who lives there.

You CANNOT tie new work to knob and tube. It's not permitted, nor is it wise. Yes, knob and tube can last a long time--but forever? There's a reason it's not in use any more--quite a few actually. Oh, but I'm sure you've worked in dozens of old houses and know all about that, right?... and performed electrical work for years and years... That's why you've come here for advice...

Do you know what makes K&T a real problem? It's hacks like you jacking with it. Leave it alone and let it do the job it was originally installed to do and it CAN last a long long time.

You're obviously not a professional, or you'd know better--or at least listen to those you've come here to seek advice from who've told you it's not a good idea (albeit in a manner that's probably bruised your ego).

As for your education--I've known quite a few folks with very impressive pedigrees who didn't have the common sense to pour piss out of a boot if the directions were on the heal.

Did they teach a course in old house renovations at Yale? Or a class on installing cheap home center can lights in an application they weren't meant for? You demonstrate a problem many well educated folks have--they have no appreciation for the knowledge and experience anyone else has if it didn't come from a name brand school.

I don't care if you're cashing $1million checks every week--you've clearly demonstrated you don't know what you're doing IN THIS CASE.

Houses burn and people die each and every week from electrical faults in the homes they live in. Old houses are particularly deadly. But your education apparently gives you license to do whatever the F you want.

Please forgive our insolence and stupidity. You clearly have this handled. We'll go back to rowing the ship now.

__________________

Christopher Wright, CR: President @ WrightWorks, LLC/President @ Central Indiana NARI, Named to the 2010 REMODELING Big50
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Indianapolis Kitchen Remodeling Contractor - You Can Get There From Here

Celtic

They teach you that in your fancy pants school?

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rbsremodeling

I can't believe you guys would talk this way to a ARCHI-BUILDER

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Static Design

Haha your post keep me coming back to CT....

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