Pull Boxes.

HallisseyDesign

I am running an addition for my parents. I am kinda stuck on if I want to run the new panel all the over to the addition. It is going to be a 100 amp panel. It would be cheaper to place it next to the existing panel. Then run a 1 inch pipe over as the raceway. Here is my question- Should I run a pull box in the basement of the addition then have that be the separator or run it all to the attic and have big j box up there. Can't make up my mind, along with running EMT really sucks, I miss ropin house in socal with romex. I would of been done last week with romex. Thanks guys. If you want pics I can get some too.

CNC

why dont you set a sub panel iN the addition??? why cant you run NM wire?

woodchuck2

I am guessing he is in a city and code requires EMT. Personally i have never ran EMT inside a home so i cant give any info on that. Why cant you run MC wire instead?

Magnettica

how big is this addition?

what kind of loads are being added?

rbsremodeling

what did your electrician suggest?

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HallisseyDesign

Sorry guys I had to go to michigan. UMM I am in a city that requires EMT. For me to run the sub panel to the addition it would be 1 inch pipe, and 80 foot of 3/0 wire. So if I run the panel in the addition it would be 300 dollars in line just to the panel. Not my money, but trying to keep the cost low for the g-rents. Wish this was in romex would of been done 2 days ago. I also can't pull wire until the inspection is done for framing, hvac, plumbing and electrical rough is ran. i don't know if it is the same nywhere else with pipe that you can't run wire until the rough is done.

So getting back on track, The 200 amp panel in the old section also doesn't have any knock outs in the top of the box left either. I could make another one but would rather not. I have the 08 NEC book sitting infront of me and can't remember along with can't find it for the max amount of bends allowed. I was tought no more then 4 but honestly don't know the code on it. Thanks

HallisseyDesign

Well since made dad roped houses for 15 years he is and I am. He had his license in another state. Does not have one here. I can run it either way just wanted to see some ideas for other guys who do this a lot more then me. I do it like 2-3 days a week not like live and breath it.

HallisseyDesign

1200 square foot, circuits will be 15.
11 -- 15 amp.
4---- 20 amp.

acrwc10

Why so many circuits 1200sf X 3VA=3600VA That is only 3 circuits, bathrooms and appliances ? What are you putting in ?
Are you under the 08 code cycle? if so don't forget the arc faults are going to need all 2 wire circuits not 3 wire circuits, no one makes a combination type 2 pole AFCI. This will take your conductor count up to 28 in a 1'' EMT? you are going to have some derating to do.
Table C-1 allows you 35 #12 THHN's in a 1" EMT ( that is a tough pull with that many wires)
Table 310.15(B)(2)(a) takes you down to 45% derating on the conductor
Then Table 310.16 shows you start at 30 amps for #12(this is in the 90deg. column) 30a X .45 = 13.5 amps for your #12's this doesn't work so you need to up size your conductors to #10 to get back up to 15 amps and #8 to get to 20 amps.
Now you will need to run more emt because you can't get all that into a 1" but that will get you more out of your smaller conductors, so you can skip the #8 , are you sure you don't want to put in a distribution panel ?

acrwc10

I made an error you are allowed 35 #14 thhn in a 1" EMT and only 26 #12 thhn so you can't even do what you want even before derating.

HallisseyDesign

yea under the city code they want arc fault every bedroom. Then the bathrooms have to be separate 20's too. There are 2 bathrooms and 3 bedrooms. A fridge and a micro. Then they have there own ac/ furnace/hot water heater. Basically it is another house.

The city is doing a modified 08 nec. Some things they are sticking to the 03 nec then some the 08.

CNC

it sounds like YOU NEED A SUB PANEL, seems like a no brainer, and isnt it the 2002 nec?

HallisseyDesign

I understand what you saying and I think spending the money the first time through will make me no swear as much from having to run that much more pipe! haha. I am thinking the panel in there side will be faster and easier. Equals less money overall. Ohh we are running AFI breakers and GFI beakers make life easier too. Good thinking thanks

acrwc10

To do what you want in #12 & #14 thhn you will need 4 separate EMT runs from the panel with no more then 9 current carrying conductors per pipe. At 9 your derating is 70% this keeps you at 21 amps for #12 and 17.5 amps for #14 This is the max. if it runs through the attic you may need to derate more based on ambient temp.

HallisseyDesign

Thanks and they are not letting us go over 8 wires total. So basically 6 current carrying conductors per pipe. K you have convinced me to just run the 1" emt from the old panel to run the new panel then from there just run it normal so I don't have to run 4 or 5 pipe depending on how I break it. Love this city BTW

Yes there is nothing running through the basement except for the basement. Everything else goes over the top. Little more time spent on figuring out how to make it work without going underneath but wanted the make height in the basement of 9 foot with rock on the ceiling. I am going double 5/8's insulated to keep the noise from transfering. thanks again for your help.

acrwc10

Do yourself a favor and run nothing smaller then 1 1/4" EMT or your feeder will be no larger then 65 amp. If you use 1" the max wire you can pull is 3 #6 if you have the pipe as the ground, and 4 #8 if you run a ground wire. #8 is only good for 50 amp and #6 is only good for 65 amps. And 3 #6 through a 1" emt for 100' with more then 2 90deg elbows will be a pain in the rear.

pudge565

Why 3/0 I believe that 100 amps is only 2/0 required. Keep in mind this is aluminum wire I am talking about.

acrwc10

It would need #3 copper or #1 aluminum thhn in pipe to get 100 amps. If it were SE cable (used as a feeder) it would be #1 copper and 1/0 aluminum.

HallisseyDesign

It has to be copper here to no aluminum. Yes a # 3 sorry I was tired yesturday and todady packin my grandparents up. Moving outta there house they have been in for 49 years. You are also correct it is the 02 nec. The 08 has some goofy things in it. Then to add on I had to read a 46 page amendments to the electrical code for our city. That was a joy!

So i can't find it in the book but I was taught no more then 4 bends in a emt run. Does anybody actually know the code on this? Again thanks guys for adding your input. Talked me into spending more money but the headache is not there!!!! Thanks again you guys are great.

acrwc10

From the 2008 code book (although it has been this for a long time)

358.26 Bends — Number in One Run.
There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes.

As far as amendments go you should be able to breeze through that. A little light reading for bed time maybe.