Problem Or Not?

neolitic

Had to do some service on a spa to day, and the Patio outlet was dead ("hasn't worked for a year or two"). Took old GFI out of panel, and it was just plain sloppy/worn out. No shorts, put in new 15a breaker and GFCI outlet, all's well. But the A/C breaker is right above it 30a. It's got old #12 woven sheath romex with #16(?) ground for neutral. Is that cool or should I tell HO to call sparks to run new?
DISCLAIMER: I want no part of this, I just wanted power for my work. Though I will admit that I also put the cover back on the panel after they dug it out from under the workbench.

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CNC

I would with out a doubt tell them there's a problem with the correct wire size connected to a breaker that can over load that wire. ( #12 is good for 20a on branch circuits) are you sure its a 16 awg neutral? If its just a normal 12/2 non metallic sheathed wire. You could just change it to a 20a breaker if the AC. Unit doesnt call for more then 20 amps? Is it a 2 pole breaker? Sounds like it should be looked at. Yes it would be nice to notify the home owner. Your a nice guy right?

neolitic

Yeah it's 30a, 220 double pole, for A/C compressor. 12-2w/grnd romex, but the old stuff with the little ground wire. 16 is a guess, but it's not a guess that it's smaller than #14.

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mdshunk

The reduced size ground was featured in romex before 1967. It is not a problem, and no corrective action is necessary. It only has to carry fault current for a second (long enough to trip a breaker). The #12 on a 30 amp breaker for an air conditioning condensing unit is probably fine too. There's exceptions for air conditioning equipment in the code that will permit the breaker to be upsized a bit, when compared with wire gauge, to prevent the breaker from tripping while the compressor is starting.

neolitic

Thanks Md.
Don't want to make trouble that isn't, but can't seem to let stuff pass that might be a problem.
This kind of thing I know, that I don't know.

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kgphoto

Shouldn't he read the label on the A/C equipment and make sure?

CNC

intresting

mdshunk

No, because he's not the F-ing electric police. It's not even his house. This can be a totally proper installation, and that's about all the casual observer (which is what he is) needs to know. If he was an inspector of some sort, or if his work concerned this particular equipment, then he might need to know more.

A W Smith

Thanks mdshunk that made me laugh out loud.

GSE

That exception was for the older breakers, that were not HVAC rated. best to get a pro to look it over.

CNC

i guess at first sight, a 12 hooked to a 30 amp breaker would be my concern in a resedential home. Not factoring in what mr shunk said in regrads to the bible itself. I guess i dont know that because i have yet to run across a situtation like this. I need to read more i suppose.

fridaymean

I thought a HACR breaker was requred to do the breaker upsize/wire downsize (Whatever). I didn't know it had anything to do with the age of the breaker.

Magnettica

I wire condensing units based on minimum ampacity and maximum overcurrent protection.

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mdshunk

Keeping with the same theme, how F-ing long has it been since you've cracked the cover on your code book? Better check out 440.22. I'm on solid ground on this one.

220/221

Heh heh...md said the F word TWICE.


I guess I'm f...ing rubbin off on him.

A W Smith

Thats not very Amish of him what are the Amish doing with electricity anyway? Thought that was verboten!


Just kidding

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Andy in ATL

Easily the quote of the week and yet something else I will have to steal.