Power Saver, BS? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

protechplumbing · 10-31-2008, 09:51 PM

http://www.power-save1200.com/1200.html

I ordered this unit thinking that it might possibly do what it's sold to do, save electricity thru power factor correction. Will it actually work or is it a gimmick? I cracked the case open and it's nothing more than 2 40uF caps twinned with a nifty light to show you when they are holding charge.
What a deal for $300 bucks.

What say the sparkys?

MALCO.New.York · 10-31-2008, 09:55 PM

What was it that PT Barnum used to say????

Sorry PTP! Sometimes the best and smartest of us get "took"!

I gotta be a prick here. I just can not resist the opportunity!..........Did you call your Electrician? He would have known!!!!

kbsparky · 10-31-2008, 10:14 PM

You might want to read an extensive discussion about this on Mike Holt's website.

Power factor correction does little or nothing to save on your normal electric bill, since you are billed for kilo-watt-hours, and not amps or power factor, etc.

protechplumbing · 10-31-2008, 10:37 PM

I've only made it about a 3rd of the way down and it's looking like my initial suspicions were right. Not a problem, I'll just send it back and tell them to refund the money or get trashed.

And yes your right, I should have talked to a few electricians first.

MSSI · 11-01-2008, 09:34 AM

there are some that do work.....but not for $300

MSSI · 11-01-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSSI

there are some that do work.....but not for $300

and none work for resi-- that I know of

acrwc10 · 11-01-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSSI

there are some that do work.....but not for $300

Let me guess, Your the local sales rep for the ones that do work,

Sorry to hear you got hooked Protech, I hope you get a refund.

MSSI · 11-02-2008, 10:09 AM

Not a sales rep of any sort...If you reduce kva why wouldnt someone get a bennefit if they are getting billed for kva... While its not possible to get savings from kvar(capacitance in a box) alone, if you introduce magnetic choking, harmonics correction, and surge and voltage regulation. into the system it is possible to get a benefit but only if you are getting billed for Amp hours like an industrial setting.

I have been in a mechanical room with several blower motors running and the Dba level alone drops 30% when the system was switched on. I would at least think there is some loss being accounted for there.

protechplumbing · 11-06-2008, 10:56 PM

We put an LEM analyst on the service. The power factor was WORSE when the unit was switched on. No reduction in kwa usage was observed.

The test was done with various inductive loads turned on like the heat pump, fans, and clothes dryer. Power factor got worse in all cases.

Eddy Current · 11-09-2008, 08:34 AM

I've wired one of those up in a customer house. The cover was rivited on so I couldn't open it without minor damage. The owner didn't want me to open it in case of warranty. I told him that it was probably just a couple of caps inside. It hummed pretty loud once energized as well.

protechplumbing · 11-14-2008, 10:32 PM

I recieved an email from power save asking me to be a reseller.

Here's how it's going so far:

**********

Sorry to hear you were disappointed. The physics is fact not theory
and capacitors are used throughout industry to balance load and
correct power factor so your 'electrician' friends need to check their
text books.

We sell 4-5000 units a month and I can show you the electricity bills
people send us week in week out showing how much their bill has gone
down. We have two well established competitors who also sell a similar
technology as it works.
I cannot vouch for your testing protocols but basically my guess is
either the unit was malfunctioning and that is pretty simple to
ascertain, or your test rig was set up wrong. The 1200 is tested by UL
and as such has independent verification.

Our solar panels are also the most competitive in the US if thats of
more interest to you.

Best Regards
Tim

On Nov 11, 2008, at 6:25 PM, *************** wrote:

The problem I have with pushing your product is that I don't think it
works. I've talked to many electricians and they all said the same
thin, "hog wash".

I purchased one to test it out and as expected, it did not perform.
KWA consumption was monitored while various inductive loads were
switched on individually. In no case did KWA usage go down. As far as
power factor goes, the power analyst actually showed poorer power
factor when your unit was switched on in most cases. Unless you can
produce an independent test from an accredited lab showing a decrease
in KWA consumption, I will not be purchasing anymore of your products.
I will tell anyone who brings the subject up of my findings until some
credible evidence leads me to believe different.

***********,

*****************

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Britton" <tbritton@power-save.com
>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:06 PM
Subject: As the economy softens into a recession everyone is focussing
on how to save energy: Power-Save Resellers are delivering the
products to make the savings!

> Dear **********
>
> You had kindly showed an interest in becoming a Power-Save Reseller
> for our green energy product line.
>
> Let me update you with exciting changes to our unique range of
> offerings:
>
> - The Power-Save 1200, 3200 and 3400 conditioning units have been
> lowering consumer electric bills by as much as 25% for nearly four
> years. The technology has long been used in industrial/commercial
> applications, but the rapid rise in home electricity costs has
> created unprecedented consumer demand. The Power-Save units work by
> conditioning the inductive motor load and correcting the Power-
> Factor back to 1, or as close as possible, thus eliminating wasted
> electrical consumption.
>
> - Power-Save Solar kits are the leading energy solution of today! By
> making solar truly affordable and accessible, Power-Save has made it
> possible for everyone to reduce or eliminate electric bills while
> improving the quality of our environment. Power-Save has complete,
> consumer-ready solar systems designed to simplify the process for
> the end-user and provide the most cost-effective solar solutions on
> the market. Power-Save supplies grid tied solar kits from 1kw up to
> 6KW that include the inverter, racking system and 1-PS1200. In many
> states, government incentives and rebates may off set the purchase
> price entirely!
>
> -This September we added to our offering two new energy saving
> devices which also are breaking new ground: The Power-Save HID Light
> Manager and the Power-Save Universal Control Device : The Power-Save
> HID Light Manager controls any ballast-based, gaseous discharge
> lighting system. This includes Mercury Vapor, Metal Halide, High and
> Low Pressure Sodium. Its flexible design allows the Power-Save HID
> Light Manager to interface with any dedicated lighting circuit of
> 480 volts in capacities of 10 to 100 amperes three phase. One unit
> can reduce the energy consumption of one, ten, 100 or even 400
> lighting fixtures and the savings can be measured within 20 minutes
> after the lights turn on! \The Power-Save HID Light Manager improves
> energy efficiency, reduces operating costs, and maximizes profits
> for any business or institution operating HID lights. The Power-Save
> Fluorescent Manager (Universal Control Device UCD-1) is a solution
> for dimming and controlling fluorescent light sources. The
> patented device enables you to control the light level thereby
> providing more comfort and energy savings for all environments.
>
> - We have just launched our Solar Powered Attic fan and Radiant
> Barrier systems which will dramatically reduce air conditioning
> costs with no additional energy required. Power-Save is committed to
> bring new and exciting energy saving products to the consumer and
> commercial markets and is equally committed to bringing them to the
> buyers attention through consistent national TV advertising.
>
> If you have clients ready to save energy we can supply you the
> products to meet their needs, today! Email me or call for our
> Reseller Sign Up Pack and take the easy first steps to become a
> reseller or visit our website for more information at www.power-save.com
>
> Best Regards
> Tim Britton
> Power-Save Energy Corp
>
> 888-850-0666

Tim Britton
Power-Save Energy Corp
Office/Fax: 888-850-0666
tbritton@power-save.com

Shocking · 12-01-2008, 10:39 PM

The technology does exsist. I used to be a non believer also. One question though. Did you test your unit on the load side or line? I've recieved calls saying that it does'nt work only to find out that there electrician was testing on the load side (thats why we always show our customers the difference in amperes on the line side after installation). You will only see PFC on the line side. A motorload or non-linear load will always pull what it needs to operate but the supply can be improved. That is where your savings comes from. The technology has been around for a while and is even approved by the gov. (US Dept. of Energy).

See Ya!!
Shocking
Wolf Energy Savings/Wolf Electric

mdshunk · 12-01-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shocking

The technology does exsist. I used to be a non believer also. One question though. Did you test your unit on the load side or line? I've recieved calls saying that it does'nt work only to find out that there electrician was testing on the load side (thats why we always show our customers the difference in amperes on the line side after installation). You will only see PFC on the line side. A motorload or non-linear load will always pull what it needs to operate but the supply can be improved. That is where your savings comes from. The technology has been around for a while and is even approved by the gov. (US Dept. of Energy).

See Ya!!
Shocking
Wolf Energy Savings/Wolf Electric

You are an idiot.

Your PoCo jag you for poor power factor?

MALCO.New.York · 12-01-2008, 10:46 PM

The names and E mail addresses in your post do NOTHING but create more web traffic for this obviously Crap-Assed Company.

It would be well advised to remove them!

Shocking · 12-01-2008, 10:50 PM

Thank You Welcoming Commitee!

MALCO.New.York · 12-01-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shocking

Thank You Welcoming Commitee!

It is part of the Hazing Ritual! You are STILL only a Pledge. Give it time and POSITIVE input............

Shocking · 12-01-2008, 11:13 PM

Figured as much.

rbsremodeling · 12-01-2008, 11:15 PM

Wow you guys are mean I would never speak to a newbie like that

MALCO.New.York · 12-01-2008, 11:16 PM

It is about "Cutting The Mustard". A weeding out process.

I got trashed with my first posts (they were relatively ignorant. {Not a word from you MD!}) but I DID NOT run away like some of the girley men that Post and Run! Stick around and YOU WILL earn a Badge of Acceptance and Respect here.

After all, we be Contractors. A Rough Bunch at best!!!

protechplumbing · 12-01-2008, 11:19 PM

Shocking, could you please explain how putting 2 fixed capacitance, non-switched caps(one size fits all) on a residential(no power factor billing) system is going to save the HO money? Please remember that HO are billed for KWAs and not KVAs.