Murray Outdoor Panel

vawn

Hi Guys,

I am using my husband's log in - he is a GC here in California and I am a former high techie EE turning Electrician. We are building an accessory unit and I had on the print having an indoor electrical panel. Now, the homeowner wants it outside so I have bought a new 125A outdoor Murray box but the wires are not long enough without redoing about 25 home runs to make the box 48" - 66" from the ground. Hubby wants to build stairs to it - is this legal?

I worked on the rough with a senior electrician - but he is not available now so I need to do this - I am an apprentice at this point hence my dumb questions.

Also, it appears that I have to run metal conduit outside when I poke the wires through the ceiling joists and to the outside - how many wires can I put into a single conduit and what should I join the conduit to the box with?

Last but not least, the box I bought didn't have any mounting screws. If I just nail it up, will this be a code violation? The inspectors in Santa Clara County are tough...........................

mdshunk

Edited.

vawn

I am an apprentice - learning, and impatient as my mentor is busy right now. I will find him...................

Thanks anyways.

vawn

Here is our site:

www.keenerbuiltconstruction.com

Hubby doesn't know electrical so can't help.

mdshunk

I'm concerned that you're puzzled on how to connect conduit to a box, and what to affix a box to the surface with. An apprentice should absolutely not be doing this sort of thing outside of the supervision of the licensed person. These are very super simple questions, that an apprentice should know. I still put you in the DIY category, sorry. If you're doing this outside of the supervision of the licensed person, I'm concerned that laws are being broken, and I don't intend to be a party to that.

As for your stairs question, that one is a stumper for many, so I'll answer it. You can build stairs to a panel or disconnect if the landing at the top is at least 30w x 36d per the working space requierments of 110.26

vawn

So far I have mostly worked on remodels for existing residences, so have put in new breakers, outlets, lights, etc. I have crawled in attics and under floors - and do understand circuits as I spent 20 years in high tech as an engineer. But given that this is a whole NEW field, perhaps I cannot yet call myself an apprentice..............

This is the first new construction I have worked on - and my mentor and I (Amahl Electric in San Jose) put the box inside. No, I have never put a box outside before. I certainly see how the conduit connects, but thought I probably needed to add some kind of rain protection.

Hubby is impatient to get rough inspection done, and I am trying to get this taken care of se we can get this thing roofed and done before the California rains hit...........................

mdshunk

After your last post, I remain convinced that you're not an apprentice and that you are breaking laws with regard to the licensing requirements. You keep calling the license holder "your mentor", so I am led to believe that you do not work for this person. It seems like he's pulling the permits, guiding you here and there, and you're the actual responsible party? If that's the case, that's wrong.

vawn

My husband is a fully licensed General Contractor and pulled all the permits for this project.

I am not responsible, and worked on 99% of the rough WITH a licensed Electrical Contractor whom we subcontracted the job out to. He is convinced that we should have been able to convince the homeowner to live with the indoor box. He and I did the first box together - me with his supervision and only doing what he told me to do. I also worked for three days in the hot sun on rough with him - and he inspected every junction box and every home run I pulled. I was definitely supervised........................................ ........ and made to redo crooked staples and pull wires and redo them when too short!

The big issue is that this is a 640 sq foot cottage we are building for a little old lady who wants to sell her big house to her son and live in back. With 640 sq feet, where to put a panel was tough. Amahl Electric and I consulted while I was designing the prints - and we put it in the closet. When we had our rough inspection, the inspector told us the only way we could leave it in the closet was to build an enclosure around it - the homeowner couldn't live with that as she was worried about her shoes not fitting in the closet...............

We also fought the city, and lost ............they would NOT allow us to put a closet door on if we had a panel inside.

So, we have chosen to put a panel outside instead. And I can't get in touch with the electrician, but I guess I will have to just keep trying.

But once I have the box physically in, I have no problem wiring it just for rough as I did it with Amahl the first time and I know where the neutrals and grounds go on the bus bars.

I am in the precarious position of being the co-owner of the construction company and wanting to get the job done AND being someone who is learning a new trade............................................. ...............

But I can tell you that my spouse is VERY good and knows what he is doing, he only subs out tile, electrical, and plumbing.

Brenda Keener

vawn

I am also working with another electrician who is teaching me - he and I have to finish a job with ancient wiring tomorrow (fabric cover, ground wires not connected and just floating in the attic) and I will just ask him.............

I will stay off this forum based on your comments until I am more "seasoned" - I just thought you guys would be a good source of help so I could come up more quickly.

mdshunk

There's something weird going on here, and I can't put my finger on it yet. I mean, you got dinged for trying to put a panel in a clothes closet. The 240.24(D) requirement has been in the code for what... 30, 40 years at least? Something's fishy here. I'm the first one normally to answer a question for what appears to be a new person in the trade. Your questions are so overwhelmingly simplistic that I must put you in the DIY category. Especially since you're posting from California, a state heavy on trade licensing and enforcement.

mahlere

double post...

mahlere

Md,

I tend to agree with you on this. Sounds almost like a hoax. Maybe it's a banned member having some fun?

If not, someone should pull her "mentor's" license, as he doesn't know what he is doing.

vawn

The panel in the closet was done by an electrician who has had his license for over 25 years!!!!!!!! That is why I trusted it.

My husband was really upset over this too, as he says that the electrician should have known this. I went with the electrician to the building department and we pulled the code together as he was angry and wanted to fight it. The only code reference we could find was where it said a panel couldn't be placed next to flammable objects.

Wow - now that I hear this from you, I see that he should not have done this.

He wanted us to charge the homeowner a change order for moving the panel and hubby said No Way - he screwed up and should fix his screwups. This is the reason why the electrician on this job is not returning my emails and calls........................

We are under contract with him for the whole job, and have paid him 50%. If I pull in the other electrician, aren't I violating contract laws?

And NO , this post is not a hoax. I am a newby - and was working with someone whom I thought knew what they were doing.

vawn

In defense of this electrical contractor, he has been doing mostly commercial lately and probably wasn't up on the residential stuff. But do you agree with the GC that he should redo this for free?

mahlere

tell him to put the license back in the crackerjack box and back away slowly.

as md said, clothes closets have been a no-no for 30-40 yrs.

consult an attorney.

vawn

OK - I will do that.

But we need to get it done and quickly as it is going to rain soon so I am just going to shoot first and ask questions later by hiring the other Electrician I work with to help me with this.


I am also going to pull the code reference you gave me.

What pisses me off is that I originally HAD the panel outside in the first revision of the print, and I changed it on his suggestion.

Maybe from now on I should ask you guys before I do a print?

mdshunk

I guess you guys didn't read the next phrase:

240.24(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.

vawn

Yes, looking at it again, I see what you are saying.

OK----- this guy has become my friend so I was defending him, but my hubby is mad as hell and wants him to fix it and NOW.

I was trying to just take care of it myself so the whole issue would go away...............................

Now I am torn between trying to make the first guy do it right or just having the other guy just follow me over after we finish the other job and take care of this too.

Brendakeen

So you would know that I am a real person and so it doesn't look like I am hiding behind hubby's id.



Brenda Keener

Speedy Petey

I will add my opinion.
To me it seems this is no hoax, and she is on the level. Saying this is not a great thing though.

Brenda, I personally DO feel you are way over your head with this. I can envision the whole scenario. You are an apprentice who wants to get some side work done, but you are unsure of what to do next, so you call in your senior people to help you, possibly working under someone else's license. This is a very typical routine around here.

Thing is, this is not typically for paying clients in highly code enforced areas. You really should not be doing this without the regular supervision of a j-man. At least someone you can have come in every day or call on demand.

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