Lineman Question

Sparky Joe

What size wire would a lineman use to connect a house with a 200 amp service that is 650 feet away from the transformer?
Does the lineman ask the home owner what type of appliances the customer has in their house, so that the lineman can do load calculations?
Or is there a rule of thumb?

Speedy Petey

I have a better suggestion, actually more of a challenge.
Instead of posting such a question on a general contracting board, why not go to Mike Holt's message board and post this query?

http://www.mikeholt.com/codeForum/


Tell you what, I'll do it for you!

__________________

JAL

Try here also.

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/index.php?

Sparky Joe

"more of a challenge" sorry I thought I have seen linemen posting in this forum.
"Remember, this is NOT my question", I thought it was well stated and very un-biased, but apparently someone of your 'significant stature' would never ask such a thing.

Ken@K&R

Thats a nice one. I am not a lineman and cannot anwser this question but I do love the above statement. Thats the problem with the electrical fourm here. In any other section of this site if a plumber asks a question they get an anwser, when a carpenter asks a question same thing they get an anwser sometimes even by an electrican . When an electrician, journeymen, or almost anyone asks a question in the electrical section they either get a smart @ss comment, told to look somplace else or no response. It's interesting how anyone else is allowed to not know something but an electrician has to know it all.

__________________
Ken

joasis

I have noticed that too....I ask dumb questions because I like to learn all I can, and reading the posts does give some insight. I hire an electrical contractor, I don't do electrical myself, but I do like to know what is going on.

Speedy Petey

Ken, I'm not sure if your displeasure is with me or not.

If you look at the other thread you'll see there is an ongoing disagreement about this subject. That thread is open and anyone can comment there as well. This is not a simple "out of the blue" question.

I merely suggested he go right to the ultra professionals; engineers, inspectors, teachers, super-contractors...who frequent Mike Holt's site.

No offense to anyone here, but many of those guys write the book on the stuff we do every day.

__________________

JAL

There is no such thing as a dumb or stupid question. You can not learn if you do not seek answers to or ask questions.

I have been sitting watching this section of the forum for a while and have come to the conclusion that you have to be VERY careful as to what you say.

A Moderator may be needed?

Ken@K&R

This was not to anyone or from displeasure at all. Just a observation. I like to ask peers my question because alot of times it's just something I have either never done before or forgot how to do (memory sucks since medical problems came into play). I used to be able to quote the code book but now I am lucky to be able to write what I have done yesterday for our records. Sometimes it's nice to take a short cut and just ask for help with a problem and get an anwser.I read the Mike Holt fourms quite a bit, the guy's are more like electrical gurus then my peers.

__________________
Ken

mdshunk

I didn't go to the other boards to check the responses, and it didn't appear that anyone here responded with a gauge size. I do have a copy of the NESC (not the NEC), which is the "code" that governs public electric utilities. I don't have time to reference it, but I can tell you from experience (from having personally don't 1000's of service upgrades), that #2 aluminium would be a very common feeder size for a 200 amp service that far from the xfmr. Does it meet the NESC? It's unclear, but utilities are often a "seat-of-the-pants" sort of operation. They'll normally only upsize over "normal" if you have serious voltage drop issues. On the upside, the smaller utility conductors do limit the available fault current at the customer's buss.

Speedy Petey

Maybe for overhead in free air, but what about in conduit underground?

__________________

Sparky Joe

I've seen several in your favor, and said nothing, why not accept one score for me?

Speedy Petey

Because in my area this is simply and honestly untrue. And I know this as fact.
We use 4/0al for 200 amps undergroud up to +/- 250'. Over that it is larger wire or primary.
I can' really say much more about it.

__________________

mdshunk

I suppose that in areas where the EC pulls the U/G feeder, you would be using 4/0. In my area, we only lay the pipe, and the utility pulls in the feeder. I've seen #2 most commonly, and sometimes up to 350MCM pulled by them for no apparent reason. I can't really say much more about it.

fridaymean

'Round the subburbs here in Chicago overheads that are 100A & 200A are #4 Alum (if that). Sometimes on upgrades (60A to 100A or even 200A) Com-ed doesnt even change the service wires. We reconnect, then it is inspected, they only come to connect with thier nifty splices. Underground service.....100A 200A 400A are all the same size wire which are always ran by Com-ed (I think #3 Alum.). Who knows why we have to actually "size" our wire. Guess in the ground the temp. never gets too hot. Com-ed gets to do what they want. We only have to burry pipe if the wires need to go under a drive way.

Speedy Petey

So Joe I guess I do conceed the fact that in some areas we electricians do not have to run the lateral cable. And in such cases, as usual the POCO does as it wishes.

I am actually am kind of envious. Even though we do make decent money doing underground services, not having to pull 250' of 4/0 URD, or 1000' of #2 primary, sounds like almost as good of a deal.

__________________

Sparky Joe

Yeah for overheads, just run our 3/0 out of the weather head, for underground just stub the pipe a foot out of the ground at the pole, not sure what we do when the primary is underground also.

I can't get over the fact that they want you to run their primary wires, must be part of their 'laziness' clause in their union agreement.

brian11973

I had go read the first post. 650' for service. A bit long for lateral, I think. I did one, once back in "apprenticeship days". If I recall correctly, about 800'. The only thing I ever heard was the electric inspector wanted to know how we spliced a 500' roll in conduit.

Now my question, why would what to do this?

My dad just built a house a year or so ago. Ohio Edison wanted a tranformer by the house. His house is a 400' max off the road. They did ask about the neighbors lot. The neighbors house is under construction. These are the only loads to be put on this transformer, two 200A services. My dad had to dig the trench for the primary and run the wire & conduit from the tranformer to the meter, etc. This was a max 40'. Ohio Ed did the rest.

First Energy / Ohio Edison here seems to run one size smaller for a service, then NEC requirements. Service upgrades, you have to prove a need for it. 60A to a 200A, no change in wire size. I have been told, you must have a min. of three 220 appliances, for them to change the wire.( My step Uncle "borrowed" a welder to get them to change 600' of overhead to do this).

Seems like new is on the up & up, old stuff, too bad.

Speedy Petey

We use 2/0cu or 4/0al.


This is the POCO requirement.
We run ALL underground laterals, conduit and wire. We even have to purchase, set and level the transformer pad and leave ground rods for it. We have to stub 10' up the roadside pole and leave enough cable to reach the top.
They come in and set the x-fmr and run the rest of the way up the pole and make the taps/terminations.


THANK YOU deregulation!

__________________

CE1

I have seen the power co. put a lean on the customer's property if they cannot pay all that is owed to them. Then they add payments to their monthly bill.