LAFD Killed In Electrical Room

JamesNLA

Maybe some of you heard...the other day down in LA...kinda between Los Angeles and the San Fernando Valley (the valley.....the whole "valley girl" thing)...So an underground high voltage line...apparently an old one somehow shorted out causing an underground explosion followed by fire at 2 close structures. Fire Dept than arrived on scene. 2 fire fighters...one was some kind of engineer and another was just a fire fighter, were attempting to get into a door. Apparently this door was the door to some kind of either an electrical room or vault of some kind. So the FF was cutting the door open...I'm assuming it was gas saw....The reports which are changing often now say that the sparks from the saw blade ignited super hot gasses inside the electrical vault causing a massive explosion killing the fire fighter and seriously hurting the the engineer. I'm courious to know how there could be super hot gasses inside the vault? I get it that if there is some massive short there will be alot of heat...but why wouldn't that room have blown before the sparks? Either way the idiot mayor of L.A. is claiming that this is a freak and very rare way for a fireman to get killed.

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firemike

Sounds like it could have been a backdraft. With a fire in a tightly sealed confined space, as the combustion consumes the available oxygen, it reduces intensity but still continues to burn, building up unburnt gases (because of the lack of oxygen). When a source of fresh air in introduced, such as when they cut the door and opened it, all the combustable gases that built up burn violently, even explosively.


Even seen the movie "Backdraft"? That is what could happen, and it was getting more common with the newer, tighter houses. That is one of the main reasons the firefighters cut holes in the roof, to vent the gases before they reach the explosive limit and/or prevent a backdraft or flashover. They also do it to control the way the fire spreads, and to provide better visibility to the entry crew.

How the gases got there. My guess would be if it was in an electrical vault, possibly an oil-filled transformer shorted and ruptured or exploded, the oil ignited, and as it burned up the oxygen, developed a backdraft situation. It smoldered, just waiting for fresh source of oxygen, which the fire crew gave it. With the increased training to foresee and work with backdraft situations over the last few years, it is rather rare to have a firefighter killed like that, but as with anything so dangerous and unpredictable, it can happen.


An "engineer" is the term most departments give the driver/pump operator of an engine or truck.

My condolences go out to his family, his fellow firefighters, and his department. Anytime someone dies in the line of duty, it hurts, no matter how they die.

__________________
-Mike-

A.W.Davis

Mike I think you pretty much summed it all up with your statement

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Stickman

If it was a back draft and at that point, there should have been some other signs ie sounds, smoke pushing / pulling, windows darken down or rattling.

I am going with some thing else IMO.

I mean what else was in this room? Unless this room was so greatly sealed which I doubt if it had electrical equipment in it, the every day heat had to vent some how.

There are so many signs prior to a back draft and the chances are so slim for it to happen. Poss a flash over but a back draft is rare.

Rest in peace brother, Signal 5555

Teetorbilt

You say that the system was old. Perhaps they were negligent on maintanence. Most underground electrical systems are pressurised with Nitrogen to eliminate groundwater intrusion.

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JamesNLA

Latest update:
Underground High voltage line severed somehow (no short)...at the break the cable sheathing caught fire (remember these are old cables)...that fire traveled up through the conduit (assuming rigid) and into a power vault. They mentioned that the gasses inside the vault were getting hotter and hotter almost to a flash point....when the firefighter started cutting into the door....there was now a situation for the gasses to ignite. I guess the odds that the gasses inside an electrical vault could become combustable are pretty slim......still sucks for this guy. I have a few buddies that are LAFD but the one I spoke to didn't know him...

__________________
"....And then we all switch places when I ring the bell"
-Adrock

Bkessler

They said on the news that it was a lead sheathed medium voltage cable installed I believe in the 30's.

Bkessler

They say now the cause of the fire was from a short that caused explosive gas from the wire's "1930's" insulation burning and filling up the vault. KFI 640 am as per.