Knob And Tube

skymaster

At the risk of looking like a complete ***hole: Knob and Tube was banned or outlawed by Federal Law yes? Guess what I am trying to say is there should NOT be any of this live anywhere right?

Reason is my son-in-law is going to rent a house with option later on in Mentor Ohio, took a quick look at it last month and there are lots and lots of K&T in this house. It does appear that is was rewired, can see loads of new wire,panel etc however :} there are a couple of mysteries Yeah I know how is this new LOL LOL?. There are a pr of wall sconses over the fireplace, no switches apparent, only way to turn em off and on is to ready? turn bulbs. Thats the reason for question , also some switches do nothing, ( may just have been killed and left? ) Just need to be right when I open my mouth.
thanks
JackM

MD this should be right up ur alley

Plan 9

I don't think K&T was ever banned by law, I think it fell out of favor as wiring methods evolved and eventually the NEC did not endorse new K&T installations.

Those sconces at the fireplace, are you sure that's K&T? My instincts say black pipe, and I'm sure there's a buried switch box somewhere.

The house is probably what I call "A history of electrical wiring".

skymaster

Plan 9; thanks for reply; I do not know what the wiring is as yet. I was looking for the correct answers from you electrical Pro's about likelyhood of it still being around and "live". Here in NJ it hasnt been seen in many many years all has been removed. My suspicions were aroused when I saw so much of it in this house, normally around here is is deactivated and removed.
Those sconses may prove to be veeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrry interesting Any ideas greatly appreciated.
JackM

skymaster

Plan9 opps fergot; YES as to "a history of electrical wiring" If it is of interest to the folks when I go out in the spring I will try to take some photos for the "Ancient Wiring Museum":
JackM

reveivl

It's not that ancient, I run into it all the time, still live, still doing it's job. I am not a sparky but my electrician tells me that it is not a bad system, just it isn't grounded and the insulation on the wires is not up to modern standards.

__________________
From where does knowledge come? If you need to know what is in a box, you could ask someone (not reliable), you could pray, (not useful), you can consult with the scripture (not helpful) or you could open the box (science)

mdshunk

No, it was not outlawed. In fact, it is still in the code. Article 394, Concealed Knob and Tube Wiring. It is only permitted to be installed now under certain circumstances:



394.10 Uses Permitted.

streetracer

That's the part I would really be concerned about.

GregS

Another consideration:

Here in Ontario you will have an impossible time trying to resell a house with K&T wiring as insurance companies will not insure the house. Insurace is a requirement if you finance the house through a lender. You cannot even get insurance (at least a reasonable rate) if you have anything less than 100A service.

Obviously these requirements in your area may vary

bauler

There have been fires caused by K&T when someone blows insulation on top of it. Part of the job of insulation is to dissipate heat. The old cloth/rubber stuff is fine in an open attic, but not smothered in insulation. Lower the price of the house by a complete rewiring job.

brian11973

Got to ask, How many fires from insulation? Did a service change once. 30a 120v. Two K&T circuits. HO's of three months said both of the 20a fuses blew all the time. the 30a main never did. The insulation broke right off that 14 ga wire. Insulation had nothing to do with it. Crispy wire always has one , if not two sizes too big of a fuse on it.

The correct answer would be cheap, ignorate HO's that could not see that what was OK 50 years ago, is not enough today.( Ever find the "Lincoln" fuses?)

Also, just because you CAN screw that 30a fuse in doesn't mean you SHOULD. Some how the fuse gets bigger, the breaker, call an electrican. Those soldered taps can't handle that kind of load. This is why the AHJ's, insurance co's & everyone else wants to get rid of K&T. K&T could just about be all bare wire & it would work just fine.This is my opinion of K&T

skymaster

Thakns to all for your answers. Md thanks for the NEC tis printed out and saved . I truly hope that I do not find any of this live when I have to solve some of the mysteries of this house . Hmmm MD u seem closest to the crime scene case of beer and a burger :}:}:}
kiddin MD
JackM