Kitchen - Use 20A GFCI At Start W/ 15A Outlets???

tmdelisle

Gentlemen (Ladies too),
I'm not an electrician, Fire Protection is my gig - but reading and applying code is certainly my goal for my kitchen remodel; hoping for a little guidance? clarification? from those of you who use NFPA 70 regularly.

I've run the (2) new dedicated small appliance circuits for my counter space, it's about 17'6" long (galley stlye). One circuit starts at one end (w/ GFCI outlet) and runs L to R and the other starts on the other end (with GFCI outlet) and runs R to L, each alternates outlets so that from one end to the other I have GFCI reset at either end and any outlet has an adjacent outlet from the other circuit on either side.

My question is: on each of these 20A circuits does the GFCI have to be 20A? Do the subsequent outlets have to be 20A as well?

I gather from the code that multiple outlets (2 or more) can be rated at 15 or 20 amp for all the outlets on the circuit; does this include the GFCI?

I'm finding it very difficult to get my hands on the Cooper Aspire line of outlets and GFCI in 20A versions - the 15A are readily avaible at Lowes.

Thanks Guys/Gals

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FP GUY

Celtic

You'll be fine with 15A devices the whole way through on your 20A CB/s.

Check out T210.21(B)(2) ; T210.21(B)(3) ; 210.23 ; T210.24 ; et al.


FWIW, when was the last time you plugged in an item on your counter top that had a 20A plug on it?

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Speedy Petey

You're not in Canada, are you?
I believe in Canada you would have to use 20A receptacles.

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tmdelisle

Exactly what I thought (devices); I've never notice any 20A outlets installed residential.

Also while I'm at it, I've put in a 20A circuit for the GD/DW, and I believe from all that I've read that the DW is now required to be an outlet w/ plug and the GD will be switched, since there is only one outlet on the circuit it must be 20A? This was a point of discussion upon my recent trip to HDepot, their contention - they pull permits for everything and they hard wire DWs. I find most times now that I know more (or at least I think I do) from reading the code than the 'former' contractor working there........I've seen quite a bit of discussion on this before as well, my thoughts are that it is very unlikely that you would ever run both at the same time, the normal routine for cleaning up after dinner say would be GD & rinsing before loading and running DW.
PS. Would putting a switched outlet on GD be going to far seeing as the switch would be the point of disconnect at the point of use?

Thanks all.

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FP GUY

crazyboy

Dishwasher is not required to be cord and plug but it is required to have some form of a disconnect, which can be the cord and plug, a switch, breaker if its visible, or I believe a breaker lockout. If there is only 1 receptacle on a 20amp circuit then it is supposed to be a 20 amp receptacle. FWIW I think a lot of people would place a duplex receptacle under the sink with one receptacle switched, for the garbage disposal, and the other not switched for the dishwasher. That's my $0.02 take it for what its worth

acrwc10

Your right on. I would only add a duplex receptacle is two receptacles on one "Yoke"and can be installed on a single pole 20 amp CB ,many people think one "duplex" is a single receptacle.

tmdelisle

I will do some research about the DW connection - there has been alot of discussion on this in the past (I believe) and I thought it always moved towards a plugged connection due to the motor present in the DW - additionally how would a 'flexible' connection be hard wired - NM wire is required to be secured - though as I mentioned earlier the 'professionals' at HD indicated that they and all electricians always leave the NM stub out for connection to the DW? My thoughts are that there is no more certain way to ensure the disconnect of the device than to 'un-plug' it and perhaps that is where NFPA is going with this???

ps. if you think the electrical code is a tough read, try sprinkler code sometime too - new releases never seem to improve much upon the confusion of the past.........

thanks all

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FP GUY

mdshunk

A 15 amp GFCI is 20 amp feed through rated. Read the white paper in the box.

kawaikfx400

i just went over this in school, but i forgot the article #, 15A receptacles are permitted on a 20A multi-plug circuit

Celtic

....review post #2

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olyteddy

One small advantage of the 20 amp sockets is the quick terminals are built for 12 gauge. One major disadvantage is 20 amp receptacles cost about 5 times as much as 15 amp. However, all 15 amp GFCIs I've dealt with have quick connect for 12 or 14 gauge.

Speedy Petey

Those are NOT "quick terminals". They are the same "back wire" terminals that many spec grade or commercial duty devices have, whether they are 12, 20 or 30 amp.

It all depends on which on your supplier buys. My guy carries Leviton and Cooper.
The Leviton CR 15 & 20's he gets are side wired screw terminal.
The same thing in Cooper he has are back wired.

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crazyboy

Just wrap the wire and put it under the screws

Electric_Light

I don't know who did the wiring, but I have the weirdest wiring for my dishwasher. It's on a two pole 15A, with one pole going to disposal, one pole to dishwasher.

Speedy Petey

That's not weird at all.

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TxElectrician

Maybe an electrician

JumboJack

I have never seen it done other than like that.

...did that make sense?

How about I have never seen it done any other way....

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

480sparky

Makes perfect sense to me. Someone installed a multi-wire branch circuit protected by a two-pole breaker.

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Softy

Isn't that how everyone does it?

Softy

Just don't forget to break off its tie in the middle.