Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help? - Electrical - Contractor Talk

Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 10:57 PM   #1
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Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?


i have a set of plans for a commercial ice cream shop build out and some things jumped out at me on the panel schedules.. they also jumped out at my electrician, vendors, owner... the architect and engineer say we are all wrong and they are right of course, what do you guys think? just a few examples so i dont go through the whole thing, hopefully it well help me wrap my head around this.

we have 480v\3 phase coming into the unit on a 100A breaker. this is coming from the electrical room about 200ft away... this is going into panel HA, from panel HA it goes into a 45kva transformer which feeds panel A and panel B. panel a only has 2 circuits for lighting and the circuit for the HVAC, panel B has all the equipment in it, outlets, everything. the schedule says panel b is 100A bus with a 100A main breaker... it seems light and im basing this on other similar builds ive done, which all have had 200A+ panels. the total amps they are saying being pulled is 97 (almost maxed out right?) i know that we have 2 yogurt machines that pull 31A each (according to the cut sheet) a batch freezer that pulls 48A (cut sheet) dipping cabinets, a walk in freezer, and a walk in cooler... this is just the main equipment, there are crepe machines, lots of smaller appliances, an electric 50g water heater, etc etc. just for the cut sheets i mentioned its over 100A, is my thinking wrong that the panel needs to jump up? it also seems like 45kva is low as well, everyones telling me we need a 75kva transformer...

is this enough info to get an idea of what im asking?
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:42 AM   #2
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Re: Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?


My money would be on the engineer. I think you are just adding the single phase load and forgetting you have 3 phase supply.

But no, you are not providing enough info for an answer.

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Old 03-03-2018, 07:56 AM   #3
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Re: Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?


The only way to know for sure is to put together a load calculation.
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Old 03-03-2018, 09:48 PM   #4
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Re: Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?


Dial 9-1- wait for the smoke, dial ONE for the firetruck and lawyers.....

need a 75 KVA transformer for 90 Amperes in @ 480V 3 phase for 208 Amps out at 208 V 3 phase
listed loads:
1. Yogurt, 2 x 31 =62 amps @ 208 V?
2. batch Freezers, one @42 Amps @208 V?
3. Dipping Cabinet(s) X x X =Z Amps @ Z volts?
4. Walkins X 2 x X Amperes = Y Amps @ U volts?
5. Misc. Machines X x X amperes @ various Volts and phases...
6. Hot Water 4500 Watts = about 7.2Amps @ 208 V 3 ph.

Adds up to 111.2 Amps @ 208 Volt? 3 ph + an unKnown value....

Can't the sparky figure this out? This is a business, every thing needs to run at the same time, thus no partial loads, and only a fool wouldn't build in spare amps for the forgotten machines..
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Old 03-04-2018, 02:33 PM   #5
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Re: Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?


Is this a franchise? No good comes from second guessing the engineers. Build as per plan.
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Old 03-04-2018, 02:41 PM   #6
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Re: Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?


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Originally Posted by Anti-wingnut View Post
Is this a franchise? No good comes from second guessing the engineers. Build as per plan.
If it is a franchise, I would be willing to bet there's language in their contract stating the EC will be held responsible for the error.
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:04 PM   #7
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Re: Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
If it is a franchise, I would be willing to bet there's language in their contract stating the EC will be held responsible for the error.
They can say anything they want. But in order to alleviate your concerns, I'll change my answer to (assuming it is in fact a franchise)

"No good can come from second guessing the engineer. Contact the owners PM and await an answer of how to proceed. If it is in fact not a frachise, contact the desgner of record, and wait".
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Old 03-05-2018, 08:29 PM   #8
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Re: Im Not An Electrician But I Think The Plans I Have Are Wrong... Help?


Get the 'as builts " from the last three units in your climate zone, and the change orders RE : electrical service.

A reasonable Jury would call hiding an issue like this a type of fraud, You built this thing 49 times and never fixed the plans and schedules to reflect reality?

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