How To Question

realpurty2

I don't typically post in the trades section but I need specific electrical advice this time. I'm not thinking from the "office manager" side of the fence, but rather "half owner" perspective because this could make or break the company.

We are debating on a commercial project that is on the table and not sure whether to bid or pass on it.

Brief background to understand why it isn't just a simple choice. The GC who was actually awarded the full contract is a previous client, close friend, and the one who first gave us our start to break into the business in this town. Which is why my motivation is to try harder to make it happen rather than simple No.

The Project- 15,000 sq ft furniture showroom (We'd only be bidding the electric)

The original bid, based on blueprints from a local architect, was over 100k. No problem there at all. The GC placed his total project bid, but it was well over budget for the owner so they went back to the design process and started over.

The problem- The GC called today and asked if we could rebid the electric again. This time... NO PRINTS. There are alot of decisions and variables that he wasn't sure of..HVAC size, type of lighting etc. All we know at this point is the size of the building and that it's going to have drop ceilings.

The 2nd problem- He has already told the owner the electrical portion would be 30k or more under the original bid..before checking with us that it was even possible to get it down that much lower.

We really would benefit in many ways, not just monetarily either, by doing this project, plus it would really help the GC up the career ladder also and repay his help when we were fresh too.

The Question- Would you tackle a commercial project like this with no prints?

Any suggestions on the engineering end of it, since neither of us owners have an engineering degree, nor one on staff. I don't want to stick our neck out so far that we lose major money but I would like to put a bid in front of him on time too.

Thanks for any advice guys...

__________________
Woman in a Man's World.

joasis

15,000 sq ft, no prints...my electrical contractor would be base bid at 75k, + special features...and that is here in Oklahoma. When we ask for bids without detailed prints, he hit me with $5 a sq/ft+, and if it comes in cheaper, we get the break. How about a no bid of time and materials + 5%, that would work and protect yourself.

MSSI

where I am in PA you cant get a permit or inspections without a print..

CE1

I would stick to the original bid. This might force the owner to come up with a new set of prints. If the owner does not like the cost of the project and wants to cut costs. The owner needs to decide what features of the project they really want and what they can do without. The owner should go back to the architect and have him generate another set of prints that all trades can bid on. This way there is No Question as to what the end project will look like and what work is required to complete it. This way all parties involved know what is expected and what the end result will be.

Politics, Politics, Politics

It all comes down to No prints -No quote or go with T&M (at a discount maybe?).
You might feel a little loyalty to the GC. But he might take you down with him. Be careful.

mdcorreia

Well some contractors will pay well for a few jobs and then get you in the last one when you become more confident and off guard.

Be aware! Work for a credit rating of whatever you decide - say $1,000.00 and insure that you don`t do any more work untill the contractor pays up such progress payment.
Or he should pay you a start down payment -say $1,000.00 then you do $2,000.00 worth of work and stop dead untill he pays the next $1,000.00 etc.
You are taking turns - first he takes a chance on you, then you take a chance on him etc. All this should be written down on a contract
proposal.
I came from a place where workers were paid at the end of each day.
Nowadays there is the term `pay as you go`nothing wrong with it. Nothing can be wrong especially when the payment is for some portion of the work which is already completed. You have to protect yourself first.

RobertWilber

If there was a realistic decision about what the building electric would cost, and you think you got the numbers right, then the price hasn't changed.
You want to rebid? Why cut your throat and be on ice when paying work comes along [and it will]. Let your "friend" put your competition out of business ... show him you've grown up [as a business]
Or, you could submit the new price and specifically list [and eliminate] $30,000 of work that is being left off the "new" design [and proposal]

mdshunk

Commercial job + no prints = time and material work.

You're nuts if yo do otherwise.

If I'm submitting a bid, and want a full set of prints AND the spec book. I might submit an estimate (not a bid) with less information. No information at all, and it's T&M.

Do you need the work that badly? Or do you feel like you "owe" the fella, since he sorta set you up to begin with? Some guys can "friend" you into the poorhouse, if you know what I mean. Careful, careful.